Mythic+ rewards

Only thing of note I’d like to add, though, is that people who only do mythic+ are also missing out on a lot of really powerful stuff. Stuff like the inkpod and Diver’s Folly (to name a few) are out of reach for them, and even if a person is way more skilled than someone else, they may be outdone by that guy for not having those things.

But no, there’s a whole new array of items from a new raid tier each patch that has no equivalent anywhere else. That goes for PvP or M+, things like trinkets or other items that have a trigger effect or something of the like.
Loot table for dungeons and PvP has pretty much stayed the same. IF you are going for competitive raiding to get realm first in your raid, then sure you need to farm M+. But if you’re still working on CE now, a 10 each week would suffice you throughout this whole tier.

I have no interest in raiding, hence this is a problem for me because I want to push my limits in the content I personally enjoy. And if I’m gaining to the point of where I feel I have to go do a type of content I’m not enjoying. I’m not going to do it honestly. And it seems all of us agree on this point, raiders have little interest in spamming dungeons for gear, and M+ players have little interest in raiding to gain gear. And PvPers have no interest in either.

I am personally playing this game to do the hardest content I personally can at my pace with my tight-knit group of friends. And it’ll feel horrible if we’ll reach the point where I feel I need to go get those few pieces of gear from raid for us to advance.
There are M+ players already shedding a light on this, and these players care little for raiding. Jdotb being an example. And even more examples in PvP.

We just want to play the content we like, and get the stuff at an realistic pace doing that said content. Raiding shouldn’t be the end all be all of this game, for that will only narrow the depth of the game.
And alienate players that have little interest in having to set up a 20 man group for set times on said days during the week.
The fact that players want to play when they can, shouldn’t be punished. But encouraged in my opinion. Regardless of skill level, or willingness to do types of content.
THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE LOOT PINATA THAT IS THINGS LIKE WORLD QUESTS OR WARFRONTS!!!

It seems a lot of people seem to want to chalk this all up to “But compared to mythic raiding” but just by the foundations of how PvP/M+ work then this logic doesn’t work.
Mythic raiding is as hard as pooping bricks sure, but that doesn’t diminish the value of other content available to you. Playing against other players adds the unpredictable factor, which sure as hell can’t be compared to any PvE content.
And the level of your keystone doesn’t stop until you enter and get one shot by the first mob.

Fact is that these content types are just different, and a balance needs to be found on how gear is rewarded in some way.
And obviously, none of this is currently working for any type of player.

p.s. Benthic gear only worked in raids.

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Thank you for joining us here in discussion ^^
Just an example, we were playing 22-23 keys, then our tank left for irl things. Can you believe that we couldn’t find the tank to replace him till now? I mean we didn’t particularly found the tank, it’s me now playing as tank on a different character. There is just no one around with the same experience as us (and it’s not about how great we are, come on ppl right now timing 24 keys), it never happened before this season.

Like in season 1 or 2 we knew that there are lots of people playing keys, but what about now? And it’s not just me saying that, we can check the stats or any info. If things keep going like that, it will be a total failure.

Just maybe there are a solutions, like reforming drop list from the dungeons, rising item lvl of myth+ , adding new items for myth+ (smthing similar to benthic. You can raid even without it, you can do myth raids without it, because it gives not so op buffs. Still, if u suck in tactics, u will lose, despite the fact that u r with benthic or not), or just system of upgrading ur gear through some myth+ items, i dunno, there should be something.

The raids are supa cool, every new raid it’s new items, interesting trinkets, procs, mechanics, but we as myth+ players don’t get so much. We are receiving just a new affix each season, everything else is just the same. Same loot, same classes, same meta (it just changes a tiny bit), same rewards. And soon we will receive even smaller rewards for our tenacity. That’s just not how it should be working.

Every competition should be rewarded according to it’s difficulty. If i’am doing a content which are done by 1-3% of players, why should i receive the same rewards for this? If i’am trying really hard, doing this supa next gen tactics, routes, etc and in the end i loot some 430, when i’am 445, what’s the point? Or looting 460, when I already have that and need higher ilvl to progress further?

And here we are again, forced to raiding.

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I ran more than 300 15+ dungeons in 7.3.2 and guess how many dungeon items I was wearing. Yep, zero. That should show the difference compared to today.

I can believe that, we’ve been having similar problems.
MDI wasn’t exciting, as well as Beguiling and Infested haven’t been the best.
Besides that the dungeons in BFA are way more unforgiving than their Legion equivalent. I think all of this has played it’s role in diminishing participation in M+.

But our tank would like to play his rogue, so we played with his rogue for a bit pugging tanks. Finding the right people that click with your friends group can be really hard in such a small pool of players.

It would be understandable if one tier wasn’t as good as the other, but this has been a whole expansion. And even though blizz does raids best, they must see the potential in players wanting to play the way they want. So I refuse to believe that dungeons have been neglected simply because they don’t care and wanna cater towards the top 1% that’s doing raids. That would just be idiotic honestly.

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But…I like beguiling more than reaping :frowning:

Doesn’t change the general perception. And I’ll agree on some weeks. But void weeks on some dungeons is just pure poop.

I don’t agree M+ should drop gear parallel to Mythic raiding gear.

Just like you’re “forced” to raid (which you are not) to progress in M+, raiders are also “forced” to farm Freehold for Harlan’s or Kings Rest for Ge’tikku. So if you really think you need that juicy Inkpod or Font from Eternal Palace, better get ready to put in the work like the rest of us. :cowboy_hat_face:

We already get residuum from cache which allows to buy mythic level 450 azerite pieces, and with little +10 farming it’s a no-brainer to get decked in titanforges.
There are plenty of people who I’ve seen push higher keys without ever setting their foot to a raid.

On another note, I do think (high) M+ should award some prestige stuff like in Pandaria where we had special class tmog sets and realm first titles for each dungeon. Since ppl push a lot, I think it’s kinda lame that you only get a FoS achievement from doing all 15’s on time (which is really easy) and nothing else.

So?
This doesn’t invalidate that farming the right relics in M+ was very rewarding if you wanted to squeeze out the maximum DPS out of your Char, since many BIS relics didn’t drop in raids.

7.2.5
m+ +15 dungeon loot: 910
Mythic raid loot: 930

So you have the condition that
a) the very specific relic that you want doesn’t drop in raid
b) every non-BIS relic that you can get through other sources is worse than your BIS relic even though it’s 20 ilvl better or you’d need to have extreme luck for your relic to drop in the dungeon and to forge enough
c) it didn’t drop for you in the weekly chest

That’s a very niche condition, and just not at all comparable to today.

Minshi, senpai, notice me, please.
1)

I’am forced to raid, why are u telling me that I’am not, it’s ridiculous. Right now what’s good m+ player can loot via raid: Diver’s folly x2 (it’s a must have, check every dh or rogue with high score), Ashvane’s razor coral (also is a must have for rogue and dh), some azerite pieces (You can’t loot what u need via residuum), Inkpod.
And what can loot raider from the m+? Harlan’s? For real? Every1 wears Coral+Inkpod. I can agree with Get’ikku, it’s a huge boost for a 2h class.

And so u want to tell me that while i’am going in mythic raid till 5th boss (as for dh, cuz shoulders from the Orgozoa), hardcore raiders would farm +10 Freehold and King’s Rest? You can do it just by facerolling. Oh my, that’s so hard, you are so forced. That can’t be comparable at least by the time spent on this. And you can repeat M+, remember. So again, it’s not fair. And it’s not an argument that M+ is easier, cuz’ i’am talking about high mythic+, where u need all bis to perform perfectly. And again you can’t compare yolo +10 keys to farm one weapon with doing mythic raid, moreover, when it’s a new raid and u will need not one week to go till 5th boss.

And this leads to the 2nd point:
2)

You can’t get all bis from the residuum (at least speaking as dh. I need mythic+residuum+arena to get my bis)
And here we are with the almost main thing here. There will be no titanforge soon. So you will not be able to grind keys to get some juicy gear. Ur gear from keys would be 460 and 475 from mythic raid, so ofcourse I’am forced to do raids.
Plenty of people push higher keys without raid gear? Could you please tell me their nicknames, let’s check their rio, i’am more than sure, that we are talking about different things here

I don’t wear them, I don’t use “on use” trinkets, got no space to put them and they only complicate stuff. I use harlan + inkpod, works fine.

Yeah, dude, and just check logs of hunters. Every1 wears coral+inkod or font. Every boss. 90% of hunters with top logs are with coral and font

I don’t care. You say everyone, it’s not everyone.

Sounds like an excuse. If u wanna be one of the top, you should use those trinkets too

It’s not an excuse, I’m pointing out facts. I don’t care about being on top, yet you can still perform well enough without those two trinkets.

There’s always a breaking point at which content requires or at least is greatly improved by having some piece of equipment or trinket etc.

The point is why should those items come from other content?

Why is the BiS 2hander by miles for PvP and PvE from M+ King’s rest?

Why are the only good melee trinkets from EP?

Why are several classes only BiS azerite options for M+ from 2100+ rated arena?

The fact you don’t care or don’t own these items doesn’t make this any less true, or any less ridiculous as a system. This isn’t just an issue for M+, though it’s currently most prevelant for melee dps trying to do M+, it’s a game wide issue, and even if it doesn’t affect X spec right now. It has the potential to affect them later.

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Yeah, bro, ur best heroic Sivara (because you don’t have any mythic progress on wlogs) log is 30k dps, while top1 is 66.6k. You may say that they were faster on kill, okay, let’s check someone with the same kill time. It’s 56.5k (Snakhunter - Area 52), moreover there are lots of guys with the same time and their dps is 50k+. There is also a guy who finished this fight in 3:36 (while yours is 3:15) and his dps is 52.8k.

Guess what trinkets they were using? Right, it’s a coral + inkpod/mechagon trinket/font. And yes, there are individuals, who can perform good with let’s say harlan’s instead of font or inkpod (still using coral), but would they change it if 445 inkpod or font drops? definitely yes. If u don’t trust me, you can sim it and see the difference.

And then again, this is logs, let’s see some mythic+ stuff. Every1 from top10 hunters are using coral.

I dunno what is “well enough” for you, maybe it’s just a different things for us. Ofc you can deal dps even without these trinkets, but it’s not okay for me, because it would be significantly lower

I’am forced to raid, why are u telling me that I’am not, it’s ridiculous.

So you were forced to clear 8/8M, or which happened first? :stuck_out_tongue:
Perhaps I’m biased and not everyone shares my opinion, but to me raiding is the essence of the game and thus should give out the best rewards.
This is a game where you’re kinda expected to do various activities if you really want to minmax, that’s just the nature of World of Warcraft.

I wouldn’t oppose locking down the gear to a particular ilvl or scaling it for M+ though, so the actual item level wouldn’t be such a factor.

But this is kind of the issue I suppose, obviously the storytelling of the game is heavily bound to the raid. But even though players are offered more then one way of high end end gameplay. Should they still be “raid or go home”?

It’s not like raiders are sinking more hours and work into the raid as compared to the top of M+ players that just do M+. And I said earlier there’s M+ players already that have little interest in raiding pointing this out.

I mean to advance to the highest key level you actually need the gear, but compared to a lot of people earning their CE late this season. The raiders doing it first were wearing rags in comparison.

It’s not like M+ players are asking for much more then to be rewarded for their efforts in a way that actually makes sense. And no, I am on the complete other side, I do not think that the gear should be the biggest carrot for raiding even though it can give you certain prestige to have it after the raid.

Right now you can get the residumdums for a 450 piece yes, and you can get lucky with the TF/Socket lottery. But the main issue here is that this is going away next patch. So it’s not the one or two trinkets and a weapon. We’re looking at if you want to push keys, and that’s what you’re passionate about. You have to gain the raiding gear to advance to a competitive level.

And honestly, I feel it very lame that the game can’t be more then just raiding.
I feel that to be a very narrow and shallow point to work towards. As if players playing content they actually like at an high and competitive level should be punished.

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