Never seem to be good enough

(Lepanto) #21

This has to be a troll post.

If it isn’t… Well you keep saying “We” whilst you should be saying “I”. You can’t be bothered with reading how to improve but you want to magically be transported, I’d use the word carried, to the harder content of the game.

If you don’t care for improvement, if you want to play “as you wish”, if you want to “escape elitism” there’s LFR and lower level M+ for you.

(Papudeath) #22

I mean listen, if you’re doing 5k dps, I’d complain too. I do that amount when leveling my characters from 110 to 120. Anything below 20k with +400 gear is pretty much inexcusable and it means that the person playing does not understand the fundamentals yet.

And that’s fine, you can practice until you understand your rotation and what you need to be doing. Just don’t complain that others don’t want to waste time with someone who does not know the basics yet.

(Lepanto) #23

Here’s a decent advice, great advice even. Test it and see how far you are from your potential dps output. This is not an elitism thing, bosses, adds, instances and raids have inbuilt dps checks. Failing to meet them means you need someone else to put your numbers on top of his. Not really fair, Is it?


Even if you r not follow rotation what icy or wowhead say you can do more than that :joy:

(Chocoh) #25

Gotta be a troll lol. Hunters are very welcome in all content. They do mega in raids, mega in PvP, and mega in keys.

5k damage was bad over a year ago when BfA came out lol. A fresh dinged 110 in greens could do more then that. And average DPS in ulder was 15k-20k. Then 20-25k in BoD. Now 30k+ in EP…


You need to give a little more info if you expect some help. Rotation?

I am as casual as can be and i manage to do way more than that. Maby this game just is not for you.


(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)


The whole pet should have no place in the marksman class no matter the rotation, at least according to the icy guide :wink:

will try survival again, maybe we be just better at thatone :slight_smile:


You’re using the wrong talents. Try these out:

Careful Aim instead of Explosive Shot
Streamline instead of Steady Focus

Are you struggling with single target or aoe? Are you using your multi-shot to hit multi-target steady shots and rapid fires?

(Valkiá) #30

Do you toggle auto-attack on and then get up and leave the PC or what’s going on?

(Shopkeeper) #31

Who is this: we you are talking about?
Account sharing is a no no. :wink:

(Valkiá) #32

He probably thinks he’s royalty or something. :man_shrugging:


While I agree that it is sad that only specific spec of a class, with specifik talent’s are (go to), able and capable (Seriously Blizzard make all spec’s and talents viable)
You -DO- have the right and choice to play like you want to, using what ever spec you like to. You will just also then choose to play casual and not raiding.

There have been cookie cutter spec’s ever since the game started, and there most likely will continue to be. Personalluy I am okay with this, and with the “Top-dawg” changes patch for patch. My only personal issue is that, again, only ONE spec is ok at least, and the other spec’s are trash (aside from Paladin), and only 1 out of 3 talents… PER ROW… is viable.

I’m sure the “trash spec’s and talents” could worked to be on par, with the difference that the cookie-cutter FOTM plays slightly better, and I do not for my life understand why Blizzard does not focus on this. Seriously, the game could be so much better and bigger.

Here the other day; I took my Hunty for the AH to look at Glyphs (still love them). And hunter’s have some pretty cool glyphs, but EVERY-SINGLE-ONE of them (aside maybe fetch and play dead) is for talent’s that is a “nono” to use like Stampede or dire beast. :thinking:

Blizzard kills their own game if they keep on doing things like this.

(Athiyk) #34

For single target having a pet out is better. For multi-target fights not having a pet out is better, atleast that is how it worked in 8.0.

What do you exactly stuggle with? Is it the rotation? 5K sounds off, like very off.


apparently a large part is the rotation, but someone told us that with the survival traits, in survival spec we already did 10k damage on a raid boss, so that’s already double. Maybe we are just meant to play survival more than marksman :slight_smile:

But guess while 10k is an improvement, it could still be far from what other people wish to see.

(Athiyk) #36

Possibly. If you do not mind me asking is there a specific reason why you didn’t change your azerite traits? You are still using your Marksman traits according to your armory. You are also using a Strength weapon, which I wouldn’t recommend personally because you miss out on a lot of Agility.

Sadly I am unfamiliar with survival hunter rotation, so I cannot assist you on that, and judging by your comment on pets Beast Mastery wouldn’t be your thing.

After taking a quick glance it might worth swapping some of your talents around, simply for ease of use until you get a feel of your rotation.


yes sir or madam, you may ask. We tried the survival and got to 10k. Now we changed the gear to marksman skills to try the marksman spec again in the propper way. But the total output from damage is still unknown, we need some more testing in this marksman spec, but we switched back to survival spec to solo the benthic farming. When going into raids//dungeons, we will select the right specialization. And yes, an agility weapon is welcome, still waiting for that, but that’s an RNG problem. Already glad we get to 20k dps with a strength weapon. And yes, that strength gets scrapped on the hunter because they need agility. So rotation and RNG problems :wink:

Painfully to see we can not select survival + marksman loot as option.


I would not say survival is easier than marks in terms of rotation. You may be seeing an improvement due to your traits actually syncing with survival though. Survival has quite a few things to juggle to perform to their utmost and in 400+ gear they should be capable of doing over 20k dps without too many problems. Especially if there’s frequent cleave which they’re pretty good at.

The best advice is to practice the rotation first. Talents can come after that as they augment the rotation somewhat on many cases, but understanding the core rotation and why talents change it is key to understanding how it gives more dmg and how your dps climbs. Reading a guide is fine, but if you don’t understand the ins and outs your dmg will suffer whenever a “non ideal” situation comes up such as having to move, switch targets or deal with an affix, which will be frequently the case in mythic. In these cases you have to remember your priority list and what is best to use if you can’t unload your full rotation.

With survival there’s two dominant builds really so knowing which talents you’re planning on using would help as they tweak their azerite traits quite differently.


So we know the gear talents we need, if we set them back to survival we do roughly a slightly bit more than 10K so that means we are already half way.
Sounds like a part is upgrading the benthic gear and hoping RNG gives a good weapon, and keep track of better rings and trinkets :slight_smile:

Also found a way to fuse the necklace skill in the rotation :slight_smile:


Gear is important sure, but even with low level benthic gear a survival hunter should be pushing over 10k

What you NEED gear wise is:

  • a 2h weapon with agility
  • trinkets that are useful for you (so no int, str, tank or healer oriented trinkets)
  • azerite armour pieces where you can actually unlock at the very least the first 2 rings of traits (with benthic gear and the necklace catch up quests this is achievable very quickly). This is recommended so you can used to to playing around traits, which is absolutely core to maxing dps.

Beyond this all gear will be useful for you due to shifting stats. If you don’t have the above, get it.

Regarding survival the basics are pretty simple in theory, but there can be a lot going on (and talents change this)

  • keep serpent sting up on your primary target at all times. If the duration is approaching 3 seconds, ensure you have enough focus to recast it. At the 3 second mark.
  • ensure your Kill Command charges are never maxed. Get it cooling down ASAP by using it after your first focus spending ability. If you are playing with the talent that gives an additional charge, its about ensuring you never have 2 charges.
  • use wildfire bomb on cooldown. Ideally when targets are stacked if there is many.
  • use raptor strike to spend focus, ensuring you have enough for serpent sting refresh. Alternate strikes with kill command to ensure focus never runs totally dry, nor caps.
  • if several targets (3+), use Carve on cooldown over raptor strike. Always ensure you have enough focus for Carve.
  • only spread serpent sting to more than one target IF there’s two targets only and they will both live for 15 seconds. Otherwise don’t bother multi dotting. Talents help with this anyway potentially.

Important talents to note (they change your rotation)

  • tier 1: alpha predator gives you a 2nd kill command charge, so you must ensure you’re not at 2 charges. You have more freedom to let focus get low as you can use both to top up.
    Vipers venom: when it procs you refresh serpent sting as a priority.

Tier 2: guerrilla tactics: gives a second charge of wildfire bomb. Ensure never at 2 charges. You can hang onto the other charge to use when the dot of the first ticks out (if taking wildfire infusion at 100, this may change as both bombs will apply dots without overlap and use of charges comes down to other concerns based on upcoming bomb)
Hydras bite: auto cleave with sting. Multi dotting if 6 targets or less can be achieved with 2 casts with this, making multi dotting more viable.
Butchery: essentially replaces raptor strike use in cleave situations due to multiple charges, so you need to save more focus fo your butcheries.

Tier 6: Mongoose Bite. This changes the way you play quite a bit, due to the buff it generates you will want to spam mongoose bit as much as possible after the first cast, so ideally hang onto kill command, spam mongoose bite, use command to regen focus, and spam bite again. Wildfire infusion helps with this with pheromone bomb.

Tier 7: Bird of Prey doesn’t really change how you play but you will be priotising raptor stroke /bite during coordinated assault to keep it up for as long as possible.
Wildfire infusion: obviously use the first bomb charge ASAP, and avoid hanging into bomb charge too long, but based on upcoming bomb you may want to time use:
Shrapnel Bomb: ideally use before focus dumping with raptor strike/bite to stack dot.
Pheromone Bomb: use ideally when nearing empty focus to create opportunity to kill command spam to top up focus.
Poison bomb: ideally use just before serpent sting duration ticks out. If Poison bomb is upcoming you may want to multi dot, as the bomb reduces the focus cost of maintaining the dots by a significant amount due to the free refresh.

The difference between the 10k and the 20k plus survival hunter is largely down to how well they manage these talents and rotation changes and how well their azerite trsits/essences synergies with these traits.

For example a mongoose bite build will value Memory of Lucid Dreams more than one without, as it allows the Bite spam windows to continue uninterrupted more easily.

Which talents are you using?