New essence on the PTR. Extra honor talent

PVP Arenas
41

Well I don’t disagree I’m not sure however if this essence is the way to achive feral viability.

It whould make every feral druid who already have a raid spot(We have a raid kitty). More or less be forced / encouraged to use this essence due to It’s “Op:ness” even if the returns for the druid itself are really smal on the grand scheme of things. Then we have the issue about “what will happend next expansion” when presumeably the essences are lost.

Nah solving the feral struggle trought a none BiS essence sounds like a bad idea. I don’t disagree something have to be done about the ferals, but this essence whould just make them “leader of the pack” bots and not acctually solve the issue at the core.

42

Nobody cares about your damooge man, except you. Specially your raid leader that will have to deal with each peoples L2P issues during progression.

Now you can be that guy that thinks himself inside a raid of 20. Thats not my problem.

Did you ever do a KR 17+ in fortified week?
If you had, you would know of places a smoke bomb is needed. Wont mention all now but yes there are ALOT of places since most groups if not all BLOODLUST minion of zuul lol

Now the way you mention this…Yes i agree but dont forget if feral gets buffed again to its MOP state how many endless river of tears will flow in the PVP forums.
Making them a buffBot as you mentioned is kinda pathetic yes but…Solves out the problem: Feral? You have been removed

43

Yeah, situational use not making it overpowered as you’ll rarely be led to use it. Also let me remind you that mythic plus is a race against a timer so damage does, in fact, matter quite a lot because if you survive everything, never die, but have 5k dps you’re still not going to make it.

Imagine your best example on how is it useful was one dungeon, with one specific set of affixes. Also Smoke Bomb is a 3min cd so in the place it could useful you wouldn’t benefit a lot from it as you won’t have it for each dangerous pack. And last, the damage of these packs is already handled by people WITHOUT Smoke Bomb hence the it’s not needed at the moment. Because it’s handled fine by good players the Rogue, without trying to parse or anything, can just pick more damage for the entirety of the dungeon, the mechanics will still be handled by the fortified adds will die faster and deal less damage/have one less cast of the thing you wanted to Bomb, and that’s exactly what Bomb would have done.

Now for some cheesy progression stuff like the end time reincarnation method pulled out in wf races it could be useful maybe, we need to know more about the new raid to know that. Because at the moment there is not one single mechanic in raid you need Smoke Bomb for to make a significant mana/cooldown save.

44

When a healer like me for instance pulls 60k hps on the tank to make it survive and sometimes (depending tank) fails… No your 3-4k dps wont save the group, your smoke bomb hell yeah will. Also Personally i go OoM after this mob 100% mana to 0 WITH bloodlust(+18). Now with a smoke bomb there, we dont need BL, with 2 smoke bombs there and darkness/treants/earth elemental? Can smoke in between heals to the tank.

As a DPS you tunnel vision on meters+procs+CD’s, im not expecting any DPS to actually notice mechanics and what mechanic needs healing + tanking cooldowns + serious mana pool. Therefore you are not able to understand what i say.

Therefore we agree to disagree i guess :slight_smile:

45

You’re taking too many guesses and you seem to be clueless about dps players. All roles require to be aware if you want to have success. Tunnel vision players just die, be it dps or other roles. The healer is never the one carrying an even group.

Does that mean in your opinion the dungeon isn’t doable with two rogues playing Smoke Bomb plus another dps with a group wide defensive ? Because Inm quite sure people can do it currently and they have zero bombs. Am I not right on that fact ?

I’m actually interested in what spells you intend on bombing because as it is I’m prettu sure you can do that one mob without in order to gain 3 mins worth of timer over the rest of the dg because better essence.

46

Well feral suffer’s from pretty much the same Issues as Shadow Priests(especially low M+), Affliction Warlocks and too some extent moonkins. Aka. ramp up time make us undesired. Feral’s usually do fine in raids, when they can properly utilize their kit.

They also suffer from “You have a better spec so use it” phenomenon, noone wants a feral if they might aswell play balance. Just like people rather see a shaman as elemental, Deathknight as Unholy, Hunter as beastmaster etc. This is mostly a community issue, since people expect people to play certain specs for certain content.

Then you have the issue of just “raw dps” where ferals acctually could use a flat numbers tune up. Perhaps another aura change whould be appropiate for ferals, I mean they do lag behind in pretty much every scenario now. The soothe and decurse change in 8.2 also help alot.

The changes I’d like to see to feral, whould be to increase their maximum energy by 20, to reduce pooling issues. Give them a option to apply infected wounds in a AoE, to help out the slow and kiting. Then also add in the treants to the soul of the forest talent, which basicly make it both a active and passive talent). Perhaps it whould even be reasonable to change might bash for cats, to be a AoE stun.

I mean it’s a hard to fix the “melee situation” since rogues are extremely dominant as it is. Not to mention that both DH and WW are really solid for their own utility aswell.

47

Im not clueless about dps since im petting them each raid all the time. Dont forget that i was dpsing too, literally the easiest thing to do is move out of aoe+use your pot + cds the right time. Thats what you do, there is absolutely 0 changes to your game play.

Yes? I dont think so, looking your bars + below your feet is still tunnel vision.

Nobody said healers carrying the group, but being healer means you need to know all mechanics affecting tanks/dps/healers + when to use a cooldown on a dps affected by XXX mechanic different mechanics for ranged, different for melees and different for tanks. You as all dps have 0 clue whats happening and what cooldown trading takes place as you spam 1-2-3-4-5.

Already did without smoke bombs myself, but having a smoke bomb will be extra optimal because bloodlust will be used on Kula instead saving alot of time.

As said above, dps tunnel vision below feet + on bars.
You never know after 1st boss what kind of damage these adds do to the tank, the adds before Kula and so and so and so.

Shall i mention necrotic stacks on tank inside KR with these adds hitting the tank like an truck?.. Well… Tanks have to kite there, in a smoke bomb they can stand still and allow you to deal 5x times faster damage. As said, things you cant realize

48

See, that’s the kind of stupid assumption I am talking about. Even as a dps if you want to go higher you need to be aware of what the tank does, what the healer does, which cds are available and what portion of the mana remains to use your own stuff accordingly. That game becomes a group work at some point. If you think a good dps is just tunnel vision and move out of voids with 0 awareness man never play dps you’d cause too many wipes unless the group as a whole actually makes up for you being bad.

If you look at your bars more than 1s to know your cds which you should be aware lf you’re the most terrible person. If you need to constantly look at your feet when dbm and such tell you when big things happen and after you’ve done 100+ times the instances since BfA you’re also the most terrible person. There is no good dps player who does what you say. I’m truly sorry for if you only play with 123 mongoloids.

Every person playing the game with a minimum of seriousness knows which adds do what damage to who with what ability. That’s called game knowledge and it’s damn simple to acquire. Don’t even need to be intelligent.

In a Smokebomb they can stand still ? Wth are you on about ? If the add is in melee Smokebomb has no effect. If the add is already far from the tank, slowed or stunned and is a melee add then no need for bomb. If the add is a caster add well hello interrupts hello los at the last second hello using the environment as a whole. You said it yourself you managed without bomb. While it would be easier it wouldn’t be faster. Now, you know you can do it without, and you know how. In m+ as long as the stuff is doable you become interested in doing it faster and faster. Even if it’s incredibly hard to kill a specific pack , as long as it’s possible it’s fine. Now you have two choices. You start from normal speed dg with a very hard time. You can eithet go hard time still and faster dungeon, more pushes etc, or go normzl speed and a slightly easier time. But aside from sweating less there is no time gain. So why do it like this if you could already do it before ? You want time gain. See ad the MDI if there was a team using a bomb once to save healer’s mana on a pack to engage boss right away after they gain 10s, but if the guy doesn’t bomb and has 15% more damage overall they gain even more time.

1 Like
49

Well built Shadow Priest with 3x Mind Sear traid doesn’t need to ramp up damage too much but I get your point.

50

Are you trying to tell me now that you dps and look healing and tanking cd’s in M+ and raiding?

Now that makes my day .

When i was a dps and i had alot better logs than you have + CE.
Yes you tunnel vision, was checking your logs youre constant mid to highest damage taken, in some logs you took more damage from healers but let me guess? You knew they had cooldowns LoL

Yeah, tell this to a tank inside KR with necrotic affix, bro you so pro never used that bomb kill them all

Because they can stand still not getting hit by mele attacks and reset their stacks? HELLO?

Man…This is not the first time in having a convesation with you but this time youre over the top. You have 0 clue on what youre talking about the most funny way possible.

To end this arguement, YOU never use smoke bomb. Be the best dps of all with 70 parses. Let others use it if its needed.
Now we are done with this.

1 Like
51

Of course …? At some point you need to know what’s up if you want to do nice things, and if you need to manage other players. And it becomes an habit that allows you to play a lot better, to know whether the tank needs to stun for relief, the cheapshot on 3 adds, the defensive on my end because healer can’t afford to heal me if I take damage… That kind of thing. Have you ever been rl as a dps ? Guess not…

Logmasterx. Taking the second orb. Being the soak guy whenever because I have feint and because ik how to mitigate damage which doesn’t seem to be the case with everyone. Did you look at the vids of the kills too mister I know everything ? So yeah I’m not surprised I take damage when I intend to. Surprisingly people in my group take less damage but they die, and not me ? Why ? Because they take random damage while tunnel visionning when I take damage I know I should take and dodge the rest. That’s how you play.

How is tanking KR with necro connected to knowing, as a DPS, what adds are dangerous for the tank ? My point there was that you don’t need to be the tank of the run, or the healer to know what’s dangerous, where, how. Why are you even talking about being KR tank -.-

Lmao if you stand in a Smokebomb and someone or something is in too you get hit by melee attacks.

You think smokebomb iis magic or something ? Have you ever used it ? I’ll break it down for you. Smoke Bomb’s ONLY EFFECT is that people and adds inside cannot target and cast on enemirs outside, and vice versa. Basically it acts like a pillar that breaks LoS but that you can walk through.
Implications ? Smoke doesn’t allow you to prevent aoe spells. Smoke doesn’t allow you to be still in it and not take melee hits. If you stand still in the smoke bomb and the add is melee it just hits you. The ONLY thing Smoke Bomb would do is make players inside immune to st spellcasts from a distance for 5s as the adds can’t target the players until they come inside so they will either cancel cast and pick a new target or waste time walking to the bomb. But no you can’t stand still with the two berserker adds on you they will still deal full damage. Idk you think maybe smokebomb is a gamemaster command or something but no it’s just a way to break los with what’s far away. It doesn’t, it doesn’t, it doesn’t, prevent melee hits or even spells from something inside the bomb. I’m using that spell daily, on top of having used it since cata, and the fact that someone says :

Is just incredible. You’re trying to tackle me because you think I’m clueless while you thought Smoke was god tiers bevause it prevented melee attacks ? Lmao go test the spell. I hope at this point regardless of the conversation you’re big enough to admit that you had a severe misconception as to how the spell works, because if you think it prevents the add from melee hitting the boss or even casting from melee range… L.M.A.O. So yeah sorry to disappoint but if you thought Smoke Bomb was op because of stuff like that, please kindly be aware that it doesn’t do what you think it does, so don’t expect Rogues to save the tank that way with it and keep using BL. And maybe re evaluate how good it actually is.

1 Like
52

Bro…You barely did any 15’s yet you have an opinion on how things are inside a 17-18+++

You claim you monitor healers and tank cds to make yourself win an arguement over yourself.

You think that you can get melee’d inside a smoke bomb that you cant be actually targeted…

Im wasting my time, ill ignore you and not derail the threat further just because you argue with the obvious and yourself.

You never use a smoke bomb. Im fine with it and i can live with it.

53

Ret freedom talent? Are they trolling? No one use it and they like force us to have it?

2 Likes
54

I really think this essence should just let you choose a fourth honor talent in arena/bg’s. in pve it should be locked to 1 talent for balance reasons

55

Because I happen to PvP I do use Smoke Bomb a lot. Smoke Bomb exact text is “creates a thick cloud of smoke, 8 yards radius, for 5s. Enemies are unable to target in or out of the smone cloud”.

Now I understand, someone who never used the spell might think okay thay can’t target period. But then why write “in or out” ? The text might be unclear to you, but in the end the in game effect is what it is. And what is it ? Lets see.

I use Smoke Bomb on a warrior, he can still hit me but his holy pala can’t heal him or stun me because he’s outside of the bomb. But again, the warrior can hit me and target me. Now if I run out while the warrior is still in he can no longer hit me or target me even if I’m barely out and still in his melee range. He can walk out and then hit me though. And if we remain inside and the paladin runs inside too he can target his warrior, heal him, target me and stun me.

This is how the spell works. I understand being shown you lacked the knowledge on a forum argument makes you mad, but it’s nice if at the end of the day you don’t spread wrong information. And you can show everyone (who know how the spell works because they do pvp btw) that you are an adult able to recognize he was wrong about how the spell works.

So despite what I said you say :

Well, again, that Rogue spell prevents everyoutside enemy to target someone who is inside, and all inside enemies to target someone who is outside. However if an enemy and an ally are both in, or both out, there is no targetting prevention at all.

Since you seem not to like me feel free to believe I’m having fun lying, but ask yourself several questions.

If I lied, wouldn’t someone else react ?

If I lied, why didn’t we rogues simply Smoke Bomb right on the raid boss to stop all damage going the tank’s way in the past ? The answer is, because it doesn’t prevent the boss from targeting a tank if they are both in. It’s true with adds and players too.

Now there is a simple thing that you can do. Create a trial Rogue, immediately port out of the scenario, pick Smoke Bomb, turn wm on, and aggeo any add in the open world that has your level and can hit you (Silithius works). Let it come and hit you and then use the Smoke Bomb and don’t move. You will see that you take damage.

You can also watch any, and I mean any, pvp video of a bfa rogue using bomb and you will see that their target always targets them too in the smoke bomb (unless stunned ofc) and also hits them back.

I guess now you know how Smoke Bomb works and won’t start arguments based on a mistake of yours :wink:

56

Yeah man,really i saw that and the first thing came to my mind is that like blizzard wanna troll the Rets.
Thats disgusting to be honest, they should revert that asap.

1 Like
57

Yes, the tank will never think to keep mobs out of bomb and he+members to stay inside it.

Man? For the LoL’s from top to bottom :joy:

58

Top tier tanks maybe but seriously I can see way more useful talents for rogues in M+.

59

hes not trolling, that spell is most picked talent for pvp, since their meta is a burst. and with demonic talent, it makes it last longer. you dont do pvp much do you?

60

The thing is (you would know if you had tried on a tried on a trial char) if the rogue puts the perfect Smoke Bomb that puts the tank on the very edge inside and the add on the very edge outisde, the add doesn’t wait. It makes a step forward and hammer the tank.Smoke Bomb acts like a crate, a pillar, it blocks Line of Sight and an add whose LoS is blocked will move to the closest clear path. And that is why in the end it’s not possible to immune 5s of melee attacks with a Smoke Bomb. Again, Rogues had Smoke Bomb from Cata to WoD yet there is not a single group who tried to use it to negate melee attacks, beause it simply does not work. Imagine the add as someone spamming his 1 button to throw it as soon as he’s in LoS, if you’re on the edge and he’s on the other side he’ll come forward and because you cannot step in the 0.0000001s the add steps out and vice versa you will get hit every time. But then again feel free to try by yourself if you’re so tunnel visionning me that you can’t accept being wrong.