New pvp ilvl idea

Firstly I like the idea in principle it’s good to see pvp be competitive for pvp etc and gives me a reason to do both pve and pvp content should I wish to.

Secondly I’m by no means a competitive player just a player who enjoys pvp.

However what the ilvl boost in instanced pvp doesn’t solve is the issue people are annoyed about in pvp, scaling differences between ilvl.

Example as used:
200 to 213
226 to 236

The gap between entry level to top end is FAR TOO HIGH with the scaling level, 23 ilvl is massive.
You are talking almost double the power and health. That’s the issue.

In instanced pvp you want it to be no more than 10 to 15 tops between lowest and highest.
( for lowest I consider unranked or max rank honor gear here)

Top 5 reasons:

  1. Reason to play and get good gear as ilvl increases inside and outside.

  2. nobody likes the balance when you got 3 fresh characters at 25k less hp than everyone else this will help to close this gap significantly.

  3. gear is scaled not templated your stat build matters still and allows quirky setups and no naked character stupidness.

  4. competitive pvp is what the player wants no-one likes a rofl stomp fight its boring quickly for the good player and immensely frustrating for the new player. Both will stop eventually for different reasons caused by the same problem.

  5. arena is skill competitive NOT boost or ilvl based.

Ultimately pvp becomes more fun and you lose the boosting nonsense as it is now, it won’t go away but it won’t be as abused as it is now.

4 Likes

I quite like the idea of having everybody have the same ilvl or “overall strength” within the battleground, especially in the likes of epic battlegrounds, I think PvP scaling would be an ideal option, if you want to be super overpowered you got world PvP, but that is also another topic that should also be discussed about how world PvP could be used as a source of gearing & reward via daily quests.

They haven’t even acknowledged it’s an issue, let alone try to ‘solve’ it.

Gear shouldn’t even be a thing in instanced PvP.
Problems of boosting / PvP-PvE gear diff / ilvl disparity… would evaporate.

Edit:

1000% this.
Let people go nuts with super gear & pots & premades & toys & stack every advantage they like in wpvp, it’s jungle rules.
Instanced PvP should be balanced.
The maps are, the #players are, the support role distribution usually is… why the frick not ilvl. Huge disparity in hp + power, in a competitive game mode, is ridic.

I just wish blizzard implemented a complex system related to world pvp, with objectives and more reward.

2 Likes

Yeh I was into wpvp in BfA.

Tracking down bounties, the push-pull between H+A bases in Naz, the invasions/CtA, AOO quests (took me a little longer as I’d try & complete it solo). Getting intimate with the nooks&crannies in terrain… I had tons of fun.

Now I’m max’d at 197 (main), wpvp is pretty much a non-starter, it’s just insta death. I don’t even see the point in trying.
It’s a shame, a lot of things about SL is a shame. It could have been so much more…

4 Likes

I agree on the world pvp, its more harsh and so less balanced and also defo agree on the idea of more pvp objectives. TBC had 4 zones with potential pvp objectives in it that had a small advantage to pve as a result inventivising in all wanting to hold it.

Instanced again gear does need to matter, it’s part of an rpg, but not as outlandish as it is now.
The gap in instanced pvp between top and bottom needs to be addressed as well and with pvp gear scaling this is easily achievable.

Pvp is best via not only ilvl but also itemisation with versatility, its always best in pvp.

Scaling in instsnced means its not best in openworld/pve content its usable but not the best.

The system is a good idea just needs to be well implemented to cover all bases not just to make sure pvp gear is the best but also to balance the playing field.

I’m certain I’m in the minority when I say gear shouldn’t matter in instanced/competitive PvP modes, but it’s common-dog for Tournaments for obv reasons & balanced games are the most fun, imo. The further we deviate from balance (because x gear should be the bestest gear!), the less fun/competitive BG’s/PvP becomes.

Maybe I’m just too old for this ship. I don’t know of any other competitive game where the winner gets perpetually rewarded with ++stats & thrown back in to fight the same disadvantaged people?

The ‘because mmorpg’ argument still perplexes me.
Surely all bg’s should be 40vs40 & we should all be role playing our way through them, because mmorpg?
If it’s the ‘character progression’ element people refer to in ‘mmorpg’ -well it still has that? Players can continually progress their rating, honour level, achievements, wardrobes… whatever.
Why does someone need twice my hp?

…& why does unrated ‘progression’ get the green light to stop at Fodder status, but stopping anyone else’s ‘progression’ would ’destroy WoW!’ :dizzy_face:

^ this isn’t really @you, op. Just seemed a convenient place to rant :blush:

Itsnpart of the rpg experience playing rewards youceith improved gear to provide a progression outside of a rank.

The better gear side provide incentive for people to play to improve along side skill.

What I don’t like is what we have now where gear disparity with the scaling is so wide so fast that you end up with what you have now, if someone is 197 and someone is 226 it’s a non starter doesn’t matter what you do your 9k hp down and with lower dps, you stand little chance and its not fin to play.

Add into it reroll or new player with limited exp it makes for players leaving and creates lopsided bg/arena etc

1 Like

I would like a BG system where it’s not pre-determined, who will win. You can usually tell from the very beginning if we can win or not.

Every BG should be winnable for both parties, otherwise, why even play?

In my opinion, they could just ADD a ‘fair version’ of BGs that has nothing to do with gear or stats, gems, enchants, or other borrowed powers or whatnot. It would be purely based on skill - if we lost, it’s because we didn’t play as well as them. And vice versa.

I mean, they don’t even have to touch anything that exists, just add a new BG queue option for people that want fair fighting chance. Let the stompers then stomp each other as much as they want.

Are there any viable reasons why this couldn’t be implemented?

Random Battlegrounds
Fair Battlegrounds
Random Epic Battlegrounds
Arena Skirmish
Brawl

Wouldn’t this look good?

2 Likes

Yeh I think it’s a pretty good idea.

Alts, newbs, unrated players, flower pickers etc could just turn up & play. No arms race, no infinite grind, no rating gates, no Hulk smash.

imo, that’s how PvP should be. Balanced, with skill determining the outcome.
I think a templated bg option would attract so many players, because that’s how a balanced game should be.
…& yes, let the people who think ‘gear should matter’ have Random BG’s, it wouldn’t affect them.

I love bg’s & would spam them all day, but perma-stuck at 197 vs 227? Get forked. Honestly what’s the forking point? Players pretty much just getting elbowed out of playing or catching verbal abuse for trying.

They oft said char’s were balanced for end-game. Well, I’ll never get to know how WW should play, because my endgame is 197. And it’s garbage.

Templated BG option please.

Issue is the queues you water down alliance further across more and more queues and make it worse.

The idea they have is good, they just need to implement it in such a way as to ensure gear gap is lower.
There should always be a way to have a competitive advantage, it is a competitive game after all just not huge ones that swing a fight or a game before it’s started.

How about gear shards? Armor, STR, INT, AGI, Stam, Crit, Haste, Mastery, Versatility. We can buy gear shards and just slam them in our gear. Just add 4 sockets for stats and 2 extra for gems. And create enchants to every piece of gear. Game has been bad since WoD. Honestly. Could work as constant upgrade until the current Patch & Season tier is maxed. Let Professions create these base items for every slot.

2 Likes

Ok that was good…!!

The solution would be to make items MMR-scaled.

How it would play out if the gear was MMR scaled-down, so if someone came into the 1400-1599 Bracket then whatever gear they had above the max ilvl possible in that bracket would be scaled down. For example, ilvl 226 gear would be scaled down to ilvl 207 since that’s the max ilvl in that bracket. Gear would never be scaled up to encourage gear progression.

What would happen?

  • People could easily go from PvE to PvP though without being easily able to pwn people due to the ilvl-scaling.
  • People could go from PvP to PvE though they would have to work hard for it since boosting is extremely hard now.
  • Boosting would be extremely difficult due to how ilvl worked.
  • It would be easier to break the ranking ceilings due to the ilvl-scaling.
  • People would have a hard time finding anyone who could boost them.

The best solution would be all gear stats are zero when entering instanced PvP and flatlined DPS on weapons it’s the only way to balance it.

PvP rewards should be about achieving good looking gear which you can use in pve titles and mounts for clout add any other rewards that players deem necessary to continue queuing

I joined brawl the other day and half the team just flamed our healer because he had 22k hp while enemy team had a healer with 38k hp and we got smoked.

Right now wow PvP is not about skill it’s almost same as vanilla how long you can no life your item level with skilless oneshots by outgearing your opponent

For new players (or alts) in mid-end season, problem is how to gear.
You need abysmal level of honor just to be on the start line …

So first thing should be, no upgrade on honor gear, buy it directlly at 184 ilvl (like covenant set/mythic 0), prices could go up a little or cost could be honor+ x pvp marks(so you need to win a few bg to get it)

I don’t think honor gear should have the pvp/pve ilvl malus in 9.1, m0/honor is what a casual player will mostly do. Helping him to attain this faster could make him play more and invest in the game, trying to time keys or push some rating.

On the conquest gear now, it should be downscaled to honor gear level in random content (bg/skirmish), it’s ranked stuff, use it in ranked only…
Then they should apply the pve malus but not -6 more like -20 so pve guilds won’t ever return in arena/rbgs to gear 226 before going to mythic CN
And finally, put the conquest gear on a fix level, let’s say 220, with upgrades for shoulders and weapon at 2k1/2k4 like TBC.

So casuals can play the game, there’s still some progressions with ranked, nothing will be stupidly long and insane to farm, less boosters, no more boosted kids stomping at 1k2, etc.

Love the ideas however they all boil down to one point, the gap between top and bottom gear needs to be smaller.

Gear should be rewarding for many its why they play, the journey to the gear is more fun than the gear itself.

I wouldn’t want my top pvp gear for pve content. it’s the best gear for pvp as it should be, it just needs to be balanced to be not more than 10 to 15ilvl gap in instanced pvp of all kinds, be it random rated etc.

Condense 7 rank ups to about 3 to stop such a big spread of ilvl.

168 up to 197 in 3 ranks outside of instanced pvp

Then in all instanced pvp scale it accordingly so its all within 10 ilvl of each other.

It keeps gear relevent itemisation relevent. Pvp gear is still best for pvp and its all reasonably balanced.

Doesn’t solve all the problems but will go a long way.

You don’t want templates or such like it creates balanced play but makes gearing pointless which means you may as well do away with gear which is a large part of the game.

I’m not sure I agree with pvp gear being significantly weaker outside of pvp either, it’s already got bad itemisation due to resilliance so bad ilvl as well limits the gear to only bei g useful in instanced pvp which with how much time it takes to get would feel terrible.

Casual players can easily get above me right up to prob M10 if it wasn’t such a messed up pile of junk right now for queueing.

I ve seen some nice ideas in here that i agree.
For starters the entry level on pvp items should be higher (184 someone said and i think its fair)
Second i think that a new algorithm should be created that provides a “rating number” . That number is taking into consideration the honor of the player and the ilvl gear (you will be able to chose the gear you want for the BG and that gear will be applied when you enter with the exceptions of trinkets ,so it can be used to avoid exploits)
After calculating each player’s BG rating number, the BG will be formed from similar rating players.
A different approach will be to create a secondary BG queue where all players would have their gear normalize let’s say at around 210 ilvl. The rewards should be a bit less than the normal one though so the normal BGs wont die.
Last but not least , as mentioned before, BG brackets depending on the ilvl can also be helpful
Lowest bracket up to 200 ilvl
Mid bracket from 201 up to 213
and the rest from 214 ilvl and above

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