But the problem wasn’t the foundation imo. It was the specifics of the systems they developed. Artifact weapons were fun. A lot of fun.
The heart of Azeroth? Meh. It wasn’t interesting. Nor was Azerite gear.
And as far as Shadowlands goes; for me that expansion is deeply flawed in its very inception. We should NOT have gone to the ‘afterlife’. We should not have removed that mystery. It ruined a lot of the mystique that WoW had and that was a huge mistake.
And with everything in that expansion being steeped in this afterlife stuff, it was inherently not as fun as it could have been. For me at least.
If Covenants had been these cool groups in the real world with aesthetics that actually appealed to me, I might have enjoyed it a whole lot more. And I might have thought that farming all that transmog and those mounts was worth the effort.
But now… It mostly wasn’t.
They were but mostly due to their lore and the quest chains to get them.
The Artifact System, AP Grind with a bunch of powers to unlock (none of which I can remember apart from Stormkeeper which became a Talent) was not fun.
This is a prime example of how Legion managed to work as an enjoyable expansion despite major flaws. They papered over the cracks with tons and tons of fan-service lore. Demon Hunters had been looked for over years, Illidan a fan favourite, Dalaran a popular hub city, Argus, Gul Dan, Sargeras and his Legion buddies, on and on…
The only good “system” / feature in Legion that should have continued as the Order Hall. I wish we had found new leaders in quest chains similar to how we got the Artifacts and continuted to work with them. Having different stories for my alts worked well in Legion and I wish I still had some of that.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that then.
I thought all of that was fun.
Yes and no.
I’m not an alt player; I prefer to focus on 1 main.
In Legion I leveled many alts because I wanted to experience all of those class stories.
However… Once I was done with that and got their class mount, I never touched those alts again. That part felt off to me.
I’d rather be able to experience everything on my main, honestly.
True- But it’s not like Professions are a walk in the park to design either- As the last four expansions will tell you. I believe MoP was truly the last expansion where professions truly mattered.
Absolutely true- But, then again, it’s not like Blizzard didn’t know this, hasn’t had years to plan / develop this, and/or supposedly has people who have years of experience under the belt in talent design (or so they claim at least). If a nobody like me can design talents in the dozens, then so can and should they be able to.
I’ll ask this again, since I have asked it already once from you: Why have you stopped dreaming/wanting things better?
Are you just content at a multi-billion business- Who is by the way perfectly capable of churning great content as the past shows- Giving you gimped, half-made solutions to problems that can be and should be adressed? And if so, why?
All these issues- None of them are impossible to overcome. You just need a solid plan, one guy/gal with a vision and the others following that vision.
They did say those things. They did promise us a new and an innovative system. They did promise us a new way to customize our classes.
Aye.
Then again they did say this for a lot of other things too- look how those claims went.
Then that foundation best be solid, and not made of clay like this one is.
“a couple” is exactly what we’re getting. Getting after, what, 8 years?
Well it has everything to do with it!
If the game is going to change so little anyway, but also there’s no real freedom of choice, why waste so much time trying to create a new system that clearly, already, is creating more problems than it solves.
I’m asking you to explain to me, and everybody else here:
What is the point of a talent tree, in your opinion, exactly? Because to me, it has always been about offering us ways to customize our playstyle. Now, sometimes they fail to do that (actually quite often) and the talent trees are riddled with problems, but at least with the current system the problem can be isolated to the abilities themselves, whereas in this one it is abilities + the very structure of the tree itself.
True, because they didn’t have any! Curious, what, 18 years of Warcraft, and we haven’t gone through ONE single expansion where we haven’t gotten new abilities. Not one. Nada. Not a single one.
Then they are not much of a freedom of a choice are they?
Then perhaps you need to ask yourself should these abilities that are going to get picked anyway all the time be there in the first place at all? But if you do that, you have to rethink the whole structure of the talent tree again- Which is much simpler to state than to actually admit that the foundation is rotting.
Do you, though? Yeah, you are right, the better/more interesting choices are at the bottom. That’s kind of how it is even with current talent options.
The difference is, they are gated behind the pathways of the tree and/or boring, uninspiring “increases x ability by y” abiltiies- So where previously you could pick 1 out of 3 cool ability choices of of each row, now you have to waste points to even get to them.
Yeah, and as we have been shown, if I pick the exact same stuff I’d have now as Blood (which I can’t even have, all of them), I am left with a grand total of 3 spec talent points and 9 in the class talent tree. The class tree, as I said, is in an objectively better spot with this, but the spec tree i a complete mess as it is at the moment. Like the class tree, it needs more starting points at the top, less baseline stuff offered in it and more new passives and abilities and old returning stuff taking their spots.
This is what they said about Azerite armor too, domination shards, essences, you name it. They all were tweaked in very minor ways, if at all, before being released.
I’ll believe it when I see it.
Well, as said, I will believe it when I see it. Until then, I have only the past actions of them to look at, and I’ve been given no reason why I should believe otherwise.
You could expand the MoP talent trees too, in many ways actually. Increase rows, increase the width of rows, add smaller, passive rows between the rows, etc.
That is not true at all. They started with borrowed power because they felt like they were going to run into button bloat problem if they didn’t remove a lot of the abilities classes had gotten over the years- Both baseline, and talentwise.
Even at max, you could get 7 abilities maximum from talent tree. Now, looking at most classes these days, my SP for example has 33 keybindings. Minus the 3 pvp talents, that leaves 20 non-talent abilities. So it seems very clear to me that problem wasn’t (in their minds) the talent tree system, rather, the baseline ability bloat. And this is rather evident in another way too, because if the talents were the problem, they’d just pruned the talent tree, not baseline abilities.
No, lol. Absolutely not.
Dude, you’ve said it yourself. They can’t even create the odd 61 or what talents in total for Dragonflight without adding anything new but some boring passives.
But they should be adding them, if they stuck to the old talent trees.
Again, no. But, they should have.
That is not an excuse at all and you bloody well know it. When DK and Monk were released, hell, even DH, Blizzard was able to design new abilities by the dozen. Especially in the former two cases, because they actually ADDED purely new abilities and didn’t also remove them.
With the amount of devs they claim to have had at one point, they could be able to churn out 3 new classes for all I know. But they don’t, because of incompetence and laziness, quite simply.
The devs of Wotlk and MoP era were able to churn out more content than a dev team three-four times their numbers, and add a new class to boot. What’s their excuse?
Yeah but how are you going to fix that moonkin path for a feral druid? How could you? Is there ever going to be a moment where a feral druid would ever want to swap to dps as a moonkin? Maybe, but not with the current feral druid design that is carrying into DF!
It’s not a simple question of “tweaking” the paths a bit. These problems are fundamental and you need equally fundamental fixes to them.
The soaking is literally the only situation this is ever going to happen, if even that. Remember, this isn’t the first time Blizzard has tried to coerce people to do these things, but not once (0/0) has it worked out.
A ret paladin won’t stop to heal the raid mid dps, ever. And that’s quite self evident, ret has more healing rn than it has had in years, and still they don’t do it in raids to any significant amount.
They are able to do that even currently though- So again, what new would these talent trees add?
Yeah but it’s temporary, I will swap it back again, so what’s the point again? It’s the exact same system as we have before where you swap talents for different encounters and bosses, only the difference is that you give up something to do it, but the benefit is the exact same.
Again, I’m not the one arguing how this system is better, and since this functionality looks exactly the same as it currently works, I am asking you, why waste time and resources on this system when it is going to function the exact same anyway?
It’s going to be the exact same but now you just do it with talents, and more often than before.
Yeah, what about it?
The fact that you pick just 1 option out of a ST row is how it is supposed to be. In an ideal situation, you pick the one you like the most, and they perform close or equally as well as the other on most situations.
The fact that there are dead talents / talents that are useful for multiple things across rows is part of degenerate ability design which is the root cause of the problem, not the system itself.
In this new system, these exact same problems are going to occur, only that your DPS is going to be balanced around you forgoing all the talents unnecessary for an encounter in favor of those that fit it in addition to that one- So you haven’t fixed the problem at all. You’ve added a new one.
But you are spending it on something that enhances a part of your AOE gameplay.
You shouldn’t need to do that. Your AOE and ST should both be viable, without needing to swap into one deep end. Again, this is an ability design, not a system issue.
You are able to do all these things even with the current talents. Some are obviously bade balanced and designed, but that is again an ability issue- And those issues are going to exist in DF too.
Actually I seem to remember in hiss interview with Asmongold Ion mentioned that they would be extending what a “rested” area means. Camps, roads, etc, even places within raids will have spots to swap talents if I remember correct.
Could be wrong.
It doesn’t. I mean, you and Blizzard seem to think that way, but we’ve never actually ever in the history of this game seen this to be the case.
You could have achieved this exact same thing with a legion style-talent tree for class talents that you get all when you reach max level, without any of the negatives.
Well, again, that’s not strictly speaking true because you are forced/locked/coerced to pick certain talents and go certain ways within the tree.
If we were completely free to take whatever we want in the tree, this problem would not exist, although that would introduce it’s own set of problems too.
If this was the case, we would be getting those said playstyle and utilities offered to us right now- But, in contradiction to that, we’re actually getting nothing.
Aye I can imagine that because thats how the game functioned for majority of it’s life with no issues. Some things were obviously lost along the way, but we gained way more than we lost going from vanilla to MoP, even WoD.
Sounds like a challenge for a good developer that they strangely seem to be avoiding!
Aye, just like they have done before- So again, what reason is there to believe this will be any different?
Even currently some talents are miles ahead of others- So I have no idea where does this hope come from that you think talents are easier / more balanced than covenant abilities are.
This is absolutely true though. A new talent row would have been way better.
I always find a way, but doesn’t mean that the system objectively sucks.
Except that:
It isn’t an opinion.
I don’t doubt that Legion was an enjoyable expansion for you- I disagree, but so what.
But what is absolutely 100% true is that the Expansion, and the new era game design it introduced to the game, did break the game fundamentally. And it is the single most clear reason why the game is in as bad a place as it is now.
The design philosophies of Legion are so cancerous that they manage to corrupt even good systems and designs with how bad they are, like ability design.
I actually can design- And I have, in fact! So it’s not a bubble.
That’s not what I said at all. It doesn’t matter if you think that “classes should have weaknesses”, well guess what, I think so too.
But if Blizzard -designs- the game fundamentally around those mechanics your class is completely at odds with, then they are not going to have a good time. There’s a reason the last 3 added classes are/will be all about hypermobility, because that is what the game is about nowadays. For better or for worse.
Compare the pace and speed of the game to Vanilla and now and you see exactly my point.
You can’t design a ramp-up damage spec or a turret spec anymore in a game that expects you to move all the time. You either pull back that design, or you bring those classes up in line with others. I’m not saying which approach is better, I’m just saying you have to pick one or the other. There is no middle ground.
I agree and I think they should pull back on that type of design.
For me the more ‘mini game’, ‘dance’, ‘move/teleport’ mechanics they put into their encounters, the less enjoyable the game becomes.
I think that Legion balanced this well. Had you never done any of the other Order Hall Campaigns you would have still had a full story.
BFA did less well. Splitting the story into two Faction specific stories on different continents wasn’t great. I did the Horde story on a DH alt I had and I enjoyed the story while leveling but I hit max level and had to do rep grinds etc. to continue it wasn’t fun so I stopped. I felt like I was missing a lot of story by then focusing only on my main.
And SL was worse. They split the story into four. All of which played a major role into the main story. How much I’m still not sure as I’ve only done Night Fae and Necrolord so far.
Dragonflight will aparently have a lot more side quests which mean I can do those on alts while leveling them. You can do those on your main if you prefer. This will probably work better for us both.
Cheers for the effort, and I do commend you for it, but it’s as I had thought; you’re a so-called ‘arm chair designer’. I’m sorry, but coming up with ideas is easy. Making them function well, balanced, fun that’s where the hard part comes in.
I’ve designed my own games (card and boardgames - not videogames) and I know from experience that coming up with cool ideas is the easy part. It’s getting them to work in a fun, engaging way that is the hard part.
Besides that: Blizzard works in teams. They all have their own projects/content to work on. Not any one person is there to say: this is how it’s going to be. It’s a group effort. A shared vision. And sure; sometimes this can lead to bad choices, but sometimes it leads to awesome stuff. I don’t think the current team has consistently made bad stuff. Have they made bad choices? Heck yeah. Plenty. But they’re also responsible for my favorite expansion to date.
Look; you obviously have a lot of imagination. That’s great.
But that doesn’t make you a good game designer by default.
Certainly not for a game as expansive and intricate as WoW.
Well, I’m dying to heard what’s wrong about them, if that’s the case.
Because I more or less followed the principles of the old development team, while throwing some new abilities in the mix- All which are based on the tech that is already available in the game (such as obstructing terrain, e.g. ice wall, character and location based targeting of abilities, combination attacks).
Obviously, I don’t want to derail the thread, but you’ve not explained to me why they’re bad, supposedly.
I have designed a one back in my university days too- But I don’t really see how that’s relevant to the argument.
Maybe it is this way, maybe not. I seem to remember from some of the old interviews that they used to have project teams in which someone lead and designed the stuff for them (obviously taking feedback from the others), and then implemented it.
These days it feels more like everybody just adds what they want into the game, and you can see that in the ability design, story and zone design alike. These days it feels like there is a clear lack of direction and understanding from the devs: Some of them don’t even touch the game with anything else but a touchscreen, after all.
I never claimed that. You did however say that I can’t design abilities- And I’ve proven I can. Anybody can, in fact. It’s no rocket science, contrary to what you claim.
I’m not saying my ideas are any better or worse than anybody elses. i’m not claiming I’m infallible or my design is 100% better. I can however say that the principles with which I approach game design is based on some of the panels and design philosophies of the old guard devs. Not just from Blizzard, mind you.
But, since that wasn’t your claim, I don’t need to defend that. I just needed to prove that I can, in fact, design abilities. And if a nobody like me can do it, so can others. In fact, I believe even Whisperer has designed a few of them.
The difference between mine and the current devs approach is quite fundamental:
I design the game in my idea based on what worked in the past, while they want to reinvent the wheel and are desperate to leave their mark on the game.
I stay true to the setting.
Everything new I’ve added is based on what is already available and possible in the game, rather than adding something completely new.
I can think of maybe a handful of “expansive” ideas that the modern developers have actually improved the game with. M+ system- And that’s about it.
If they spent less time turning women into fruit bowls, maybe they could design more of them.
Imagine thinking that the art team has anything to do with designing talents. Always hilarious to read the rants of the so called armchair-experts on the forums.
Rather than this “new” dragonflight talent system, I’d rather have them bring back “classic” talent trees. They looked more fun than what they offer in the preview of Dragonflight
I’m not saying they’re bad. I haven’t looked at them.
I’m saying they’re only ideas. Ideas don’t make a game.
Interaction between effects, skills, input, output all of that stuff; that’s what makes a game. And I’m just saying that it’s easy to come up with ideas, but implementing them into a game like WoW requires more than ‘just an idea’.
That was just to show that ideas come easy. Making them into a finely tuned game engine is something completely different.
No. You’ve proven that you can come up with ideas.
That’s not the same thing. It really isn’t.
I remember you saying you can do better than the current devs.
Again; no. That’s not game design.
That’s just spitballing ideas. And sure; many people can do THAT.
I definitely can too. But that’s not what game design is (it’s part of it, sure).
But it seems that their philosophy behind creating the talent trees wasn’t to add a whole bunch of new stuff. It was to give us access to 18 years worth of stuff we’ve seen. I like that idea. Would I like completely new stuff? Sure I would.
But what if that is just not their vision?
Doesn’t sound like it when I look at the DF talent trees. They’re definitely going back to the well. They’re doing the opposite there of what you claim.
Debatable. The game means different things to different people.
Again; that’s exactly what they’re doing with the DF talent trees.
So what’s the problem exactly? I’m confused now.
That’s another subjective thing. What works for you, might not work for someone else and visa versa.
go play classic then and check how much “fun” talent trees are there. Spoiler alert: my enh and prot paladin have been playing the same build for the entire TBC.
You just told me I don’t know what I’m doing, despite not even reading up or looking what I’ve done, by your own admission?
You asked for the proof. I provided you with it.
Implying the game’s been finely tuned the last 8 years lmao.
A bit of dictionary for you:
“design”
“a plan or drawing produced to show the look and function or workings of a building, garment, or other object before it is made.”
By definition, anybody can be designer- And, seeing as I can indeed design abilities per the definition of the word, I should think you should admit that.
Well obviously I have to have some faith in myself, otherwise why go through all the trouble to suggest anything?
That doesn’t mean I think I am infallible or it is 100% better.
By definition, yes it is.
So, let me get this right:
I take your 18 year old car. Rusty, half a million kilometers in it.
And then I give it a new paintjob.
You’re fine paying the same original price for it, rather than just getting an actual, improved, better car?
Yes or no will do.
Well, I don’t really care what their vision is because the past 8 years has shown us just where that has lead the game.
They are, word on word, trying to reinvent the wheel.
They are not making a copypaste of current talents. They are not making a copypaste of the old talents. They are making a new one, with the exact same principles as before, as we’ve argued and shown.
Maybe, but the game still has a legacy even new developers should be subjected to following.
Well, like you said, you didn’t even read what I suggested, so of course you can’t know.
Well clearly it hasn’t worked for a whole lot of players when we’re down to sub 2 or maybe even 1 million worldwide subs, compared to MoP and Wotlk numbers of 8-12 million.
I mean, at the end of the day, you can say whatever your opinion is but the subs and popularity of the game doesn’t lie. If the current dev team was so infallible and great and amazing and did so good work all these years, I ask you this:
How come the game’s in the state it finds itself in?
Some will say Bobby.
Some will say the cubicle crawlers.
Some will say the corpos.
Undoubtedly- But, truth be told, if you are looking for the guilty re: why the game is as bad as it is, the developers need only look into the mirror.
I doubt any of them were forced at gunpoint to design and balance the game the way it’s been made. I doubt a corpo came in and told them “lol just make the game bad lmao”.
No. You apparently don’t know the difference.
And I’m not going to keep up this back and forth. It’s useless.
I’m not implying any such thing. I’m saying game design takes those things.
Also: I think various things were definitely finely tuned, but that’s neither here nor there because that was not what I was implying.
It’s not ‘just’ design. It’s game design.
Which is a completely different thing.
Nope. ‘Game design’ is different than just ‘design’.
And you not realizing that, proves my points.
It will not do because it’s a stupid analogy.
It’s not AT ALL comparable.
Ps; you’re basically describing Classic. I think those games did fairly well (even though they’re not my thing).
Disagree. Legion was great.
BfA was disappointing yes, but with the exception of 8.3 was ‘okay’.
Shadowlands was bad.
All of the above is of course my opinion on the matter.
Also: You SHOULD care because it’s not YOUR game. It’s theirs.
They are making new trees with many OLD talents/skills/borrowed power.
So my point stands. They’re not reinventing the wheel; they’re doing ‘blasts from the past’. Exactly what you want, apparently.
Also debatable. I’m very glad the devs over the years have made certain changes to the game. It made it much more enjoyable for me. If they hadn’t done that, I wouldn’t be playing anymore.
Change and new things can be good and they can be bad.
That just comes with the territory.
There’s a saying: ‘stagnation means decline’.
That’s completely off topic. This is a thread about the upcoming talent trees in DF.
Very true. But don’t make the mistake of assuming that that is all due to 1 or 2 things.
No; there’s a LOT of very different things not right with WoW at the moment.
Different players leave for different reasons.
Yeah, mistakes were made. But good things were ALSO made.
I’m convinced they CAN do better. And I’m HOPING they will do better in DF.
Yea, of course you aren’t, because just like the three last times, you ran out of arguments.
Fourth time’s the charm?
Well since the game has been lacking it for 8 years, apparently the game is developed by armchair generals, according to your logic! That, or mysteriously, just because they got the job tag, they aren’t somehow better than the rest of us.
But hey, it’s your argument…
Such as?
Name me unironically one system that was finely tuned from the start. One.
My god, you really can’t just deal with being wrong, can you?
The dictionary doesn’t care about what you think game design means. A game is an object, ergo, the design term is perfectly valid.
Unless of course you say that’s now how you personally define game design, in which case you might as well not even join the discussion, because no matter what I or anybody else would ever say you could always back away and say “it doesn’t fit my definition”.
it unironically is a 1/1 comparison. But that’s your argument, not mine.
But hey, if you wanna pay for an 18 year car with a fresh paintjob like it’s brand new, kudos to you, what can I say.
I’m not. I’m actually basing the game way more around MoP, WoD and Wotlk elements.
Maybe, maybe not.
Was it though? I mean, if it again was such an awesome expansion, why is it so universally disliked and why did so few people play it?
*is bad
It’s not their game. They work for a business, they deliver a product based on what they’re paid for. And they have, as it stands, delivered a really bad product continuously for 8 years.
If they knew how to design the game, I would care. Even if they ignored the playerbase, but knew how to do their job, I would not mind it.
Well, again, if you read the post I liked you, you would know this isn’t the case.
None of this matters because objectively MoP and Wotlk were the two most played expansions to date. It’s not even up to debate. In comparison, these three expansions rank in the lowest alongside WoD (whose only cardinal sin was having no content, unlike all the other sins Legion, BFA and SL have had).
Yes but you asked for them, so I provided them and now that I have done so, you refuse to even look at it lol.
I’m not the best at maths but if the modern devs idea is to appeal to “different market”, I would say its not going very well for them. 2 million vs 12 million.
meanwhile I have been given 0 (0/0) reason to believe the devs will do any better and I will only believe when I see it. Believe me, if I did as bad a job as these devs did, I would have been fired years ago from my job.
Actually it’s because ‘there’s no arguing with fools’.
I can’t talk to you about that topic, because you lack the knowledge.
I can do you one better: Virtually ALL of their systems were.
It might not be the tuning that you personally liked. But it was finely tuned nonetheless.
I can’t deal with people thinking they know something about a topic, but time and again prove that they really don’t.
Shows again that you don’t get it.
You really don’t.
Sorry. You’re factually wrong.
It’s like saying that sculpting and painting are the same thing because they’re both ‘being creative’. It’s ridiculous.
It really isn’t.
And I’m not going to debate you any more about how dumb the things are that you say.
I’m tired of it. And honestly; it’s starting to feel like you’re trolling. Because I’m hoping nobody can be this ignorant.
You’re leaving out the context where I stated this was MY opinion.
So there’s no maybe. It’s what I think. 100%.
Did I use the word ‘awesome’? No. I used the word ‘okay’. Which has a completely different meaning.
Sure.
Omg. Ok… You’re trolling. You have to be.
Lol. ‘okay’.
Your arguments are getting dumber by the minute.
For you personally maybe. Legion is very well liked.
You’re really grasping at straws here, aren’t you?
Meaning I WASN’T TALKING ABOUT THOSE. I don’t care one bit about your ideas. They have zero influence on ANYTHING. I care about what the devs are doing.
You. Don’t. Matter.
Sorry.
If you think that’s what they did, well… Let’s just add this to the ‘dumb things Atahalni said’ list.
Fine. I don’t care.
Now… What was your original argument again? Because all of this got terribly sidetracked by your nonsense.
Let’s discuss the talent trees. If you’re not up for that; we’re done.
Knowledge that you seem to be unable to provide and conjure up, despite claiming you have it. Curious.
Ah, how convenient. Too bad that, just one post ago, you said:
“various” =/all. So, which one is it? Or is this simply another topic switch, because you can’t even come up with one example.
Except that, Blizzard themselves admitted that the tuning was off on, oh, I don’t know:
Azerite armor
Legendaries
Loot acquisition
Artifact power acquisition
Balance of the game (PVP, PVE)
Covenant choices (see: Necrolord warrior pre buff).
Need I go on? And these were -admitted- by the developers* themselves
*The developer(s) in question were those interviewed in dev blogs like Ion hazzikostas.
So, chin up and admit your mistake.
Well, maybe I know about the topic, and maybe not. But for sure know that for some reason you, despite having all this supposed knowledge, seem to be unable to conjure any of it.
While me, a nobody, is capable of doing that just fine.
It doesn’t matter what I think about it: the dictionary’s very clear on the definition.
They are both designing though?
5th times the charm, ladies and gentlemen. Will she keep her promise this time?
Then just stop replying to me: I’m not your jailer!
Alternatively you could actually offer some arguments.
Well I don’t really care about your opinion, I care about how things are. I know some people very much liked Legion- But, that doesn’t take away from the fact that it was the antichrist expansion of WoW, as one of the above posters summed it up rather well.
Okay vs 8-12 million subs.
Well, unless they are also stock owners, it really isn’t their game, by definition.
And I would argue it shouldn’t even be, seeing the way how they’ve turned the game.
No, it’s just actually me putting a foot down and stating facts: You can say whatever you like, but at the end of the day, the number of subs is directly linked with how successful, both in the eyes of the customers as well as the owners, an expansion is.
So the bigger number is simply better. Objectively.
No, it doesn’t matter what I personally believe even re: this. It’s just a fact.
Odd you should say that. After all, you asked for them yourself! And I provided them.
Clearly they have some influence, since you asked for them yourself.
Most likely I don’t yeah- And neither do you, or most people, really. As is quite evident from the way they have developed the game the last 8 years.
You care for the developers, yet they don’t care for you. It continues to baffle me why do you feel so loyal to them, when you have no reason to be?
2 million is smaller than 12 though.
Well, you seemingly do, despite what you claim. After all, you have replied to me some 14 times in this thread?
It’s the same as before, you can look it up.
*actually it was due to your nonsense, I even asked not to sidetrack this in one of my posts.
Game design includes talent trees- And we have discussed that.