No sense of growth during leveling vs Mob Difficulty


(Dejarous) #5

If you think leveling is challenging you’re not a good player. Not saying that to be mean or anything, but its almost universally accepted that its not hard, at all.


#6

From my personal opinion and experiences since BFA Prepatch I have noticed that some parts of leveling though maybe a little slow does feel good. But the overall thought I just sit with when I´m leveling and specially once I´m done is, this just take longer then it should be.

The mob scalling isn´t a bad idea but with the stat squish they have squished our power to much to the point that it takes longer to kill mobs then it should. Classes such as Hunters, Warlocks, Rouges and Shaman just feel horendous to level when the fights begin to drag out due to an inflated health pool.

I Do belive that if they cut healthpools of mobs with about 30% then it should feel better to level, it won´t be one-shotting and it will still reward people that can play there classes well with a faster and more smoth experience.


(Shwosh) #7

This is why we don’t need to become more powerful while we are leveling


#8

If you think it is easy, I highly doubt you have even leveled up a character recently. I’ve leveled a Priest 110-120, Warrior 110-120, Mage 20-80, a druid 20-120, a rogue to 20-40, another druid from 100-120, a Demon hunter from 110-120, a monk 1-44 and two paladins 1-26 and each one the mobs were providing sufficient challange.

I couldn’t pull masses of mobs. The max I would ever go was 3 and that would require ccs and constant healing (4 is a stretch, depending on the class and your current state), but I would primarily only stick to taking 1 or 2 mobs at a time. I’m am regularly healing during fights to keep myself alive and killing the mobs is much slower these days.

I can’t charge mindlessly into a cave like I used too, take down a pack of 6 mobs in my full transmog gear and faceroll them like I’m some sort of god. I have to take it slowly, 1 or 2 mobs at a time and 3 if I’m fully replinished with mana and health.

I die regularly if I push too fast or get cocky.

It has totally changed now.

If you think it is as easy as it was in the past, you most definately haven’t leveled up recently.


(Dottie) #9

I do get your meaning, some classes have it harder than others on multiple mobs and when you level the mobs get harder but you have the same gear, unless it’s heirlooms of course. I find most plate or tanking classes really easy to take on 3-4 mobs. Some classes die quickly on 2 mobs, even with slows and CCs.


#10

The only “hard” leveling experience in the game right now is 110-120, ive quit multiple times leveling characters from scratch because it’s mindlessly boring.


#11

I, as a 97 level before i reached 100 lvl, soloed 100 lvl elites in quests and in world without even putting an effort to it.
You really really really really think your statement is valid?


(Caesa) #12

Thing is how do you define growing in power? Growth in power has to be relative to something always. You clearly grow in power compared to yourself, but that is hard to notice because you cannot just go back and compare yourself to yourself in the past and the growth from minute to minute gameplay is low.

On the other hand comparing yourself to the enemies you are facing does not work from a game balance perspective. Sure people wanna blame this on scaling, but the point of scaling is to make the game work as intended, ie that your difficulty curve doesn’t trend downward the stronger you get. After all a game shouldn’t be getting easier.

Now the more obvious problem is, the expansion resets, within singular expansions the game does well to raise stakes, you understand why the BfA leveling zones are easier than at max level or why the Nazjatar mobs will be even stronger than max level ones, since their difference in power is supported by story reasons. On the other hand a boar in BfA has little justification of being different from a boar in Cata zones. This has very little to do with scaling and more that expansions are too much like resets and we have so many of them over the leveling experience now(going Vanilla to TBC actually worked because it was Demonic Boars, but going to WotLK sure you may have had some undead boars, but normal one had no real justification anymore).

I do not think this problem is at all solvable, whatever we do to the leveling and obviously speaking it is not viable either to keep one upping enemy types to justify their power in the next continent.(Or making new ones up)

At this point it is something to live with, but lets get back to understanding the feeling of power growth. I think the only solution to that is to rework classes with leveling in mind to deliver a better more consistent progression in what our characters can do. Have a solid core rotation early, but build upon it for the whole experience by introducing new synergies or new abilities that at all stages feel like you got stronger. At the moment rotations are kinda front loaded but also designed in some cases around mechanics that come way late(any class with a non flat damage Mastery, like Enhancement).

If Blizzard can deliver on class designs that are designed with leveling in mind(which requires them to come up with a way to stop increasing levels endlessly at this point) unlike the current ones that were only designed to be working at max level only, you can still be relatively the same strength versus normal mobs accross the levels, but you will feel more powerful facing more powerful enemies due to your kit growing.


#13

I’m currently on my second go at levelling in wow, I managed to level a Warrior to 85 last year before stopping playing, and have my Ret Paladin to 102 now. So I’m a pretty new player you could say.

This time I have a few hierloom pieces which I think have helped quite a bit as well.

In terms of difficulty, I’ve found levelling pretty easy to be honest, I can pull 3.4.5 mobs and survive once I had an AOE skill.

I think my 1st death was from attacking mobs I should have been disguising myself to blend in against at around level 30-40.

Pandaria was just as easy, although I did notice a bit of an increase in Draenor with some bosses/elites having 60k+ to 100k health. I only came across 1 that I couldn’t solo though which still suggests it was quite easy.

I’m in Legion now and things are taking longer to die but that’s more down to them having more health rather than being more difficult. I’ve died more to fall damage in legion than I have anything else.

In terms of feeling power growth. I don’t think this has been great. I’m now 102 with 138 item level and whilst I’m doing more than I was at 60 it’s not as huge an increase as I will be when I hit 120. the damage increase is really quite flat/subtle I feel up until now and I’m expecting it to sharply increase as I get my item level higher which is a shame. I’d much rather feel the growth build over time than explode after one piece of content late in the process.

This may be down to class choice, On a Ret paladin I have a nice heal which I have used as well as CC. Although my last skill which gave me a considerable damage increase was level 60 so since then I’ve been almost stuck around a similar level, albeit have gotten a little stronger as my gear improved.

These things could definitely be improved to give a more noticeable damage increase as you level but also adjust mob damage to make you more thoughtful about your approach rather than just giving mobs more health to make fights last longer.


(Leafkettle) #14

I guess this makes you then even a bad empathetic player as well. I’m pretty sure the OP means with “challenging” more a sense of “it’s not fun and it challenges my patience” than anything else. But again, it depends on the a) race, b) especially the class and c) if you have the proper tools and achievements to make it haste, like having the Pathfinders. We don’t know the exact condition the player is dealing with.

As it Zolteru says it, leveling takes far longer as it should be. This needs to be fixed so more people can get encouraged to player other races and specs.


#15

I find the leveling process to be enjoyable, because I can steam roll through zones, who doesn’t enjoy that?

Luckily, soon, we will have the option between easy and fun leveling or challenging and fun leveling.


(Leafkettle) #16

You “steamrolled” in 7.3.5 but now you’re actually leveling.


#17

Not noticed that much of a difference? Could be being stacked to the gills with 'looms, but it’s the same feeling of nothing being an issue.


#18

I have a Hunter that I’ve been levelling as part of a “project” to get achievement progress on loremaster, in doing so I do a full cleanup of all the questing zones I get into and the only real difficult quests & mobs I’ve had to give up on where 5 man quests & a handful of 3 man quests. That’s the only place I have to ask for help from others to get through. Other than that, I’m a little dissapointed that I never have to use buffs or food after killing multiple bosses, but vanilla will fix that for me.

I find levelling to be easy tbh, it takes time yes, but if you read the quests & pay attention to the story coupled with actually enjoying mmos it’s actually really fun.


(Leafkettle) #19

You should have paid more attention back then. In the past you could one-hit every enemy which isn’t possible today.

And some classes really struggle to make it through, especially cloth-based ones. I leveled a Feral Druid and a Demo Warlock at the same time the past weeks and there is an extreme day and night difference how fast or slow it can be.


#20

I see, sure I agree but that’s more down to an enhanced health pool with the mobs and squish of looms which in an artificial difficulty, meaning things generally take a larger chunk of time.


(Zestyzanzil) #21

Tbh, there is some kind of growth while leveling, mainly that your skill usage becomes more important.

For example, I levelled an arcane mage to the mid 40s by just using magic missile and occasionally an arcane barrage as an instant cast finisher if the missiles didn’t quite do it. However that eventually starts weaning off, and I had to learn to play the mage properly, with the proper arcane blast to arcane barrage gameplay becoming increasingly more effective.

It’s a similar story with most classes, or at least the classes that I’ve levelled within the past year. At lower levels almost any strategy works against mobs, and eventually as you level up you have to start grasping how to play the class properly. The main issue is that by about level 60 you effectively have all of your important tools, and have probably just about finished learning how to play your class effectively, but you still have a loooong stretch of gameplay to go before you reach max level.


#22

I agree with you without heirlooms, but with heirlooms it is a joke unless ur dogsh*t. Thing is though I don’t want levelling too be difficult when there’s a level boost on the cash shop :confused:


#23

I now have five characters at 120, and I’ve levelled four or five through older content now (my enthusiasm dies when I reach BFA). Apart from a few group or flat-out broken quests (hello, Redridge Mountains!) and the odd mob that has wonky scaling, I’ve found levelling content to be incredibly easy. I don’t consider mobs that do nothing but auto-attack for the five to twelve seconds that they’re alive to be challenging. Even mobs with special abilities rarely do much to you, if they somehow manage to get the ability off.

I don’t mind scaling, I really don’t. But it does highlight just how few abilities that classes have these days. And how you get nothing for sometimes tens of levels. :frowning:


(Valkiá) #24

We do? With full heirlooms I don’t. And even in the slots where I am not using heirlooms like my gloves it doesn’t ‘feel’ like an upgrade when I get 20 levels and is rewarded with 2 crit rating, 2 stamina and 1 strength more on my gloves. The ilvl squishes have hit lower lvl content hard so lvl 20 gloves and lvl 40 gloves are almost the same stat-wise.
I find that kinda sad.