Outlaw AoE is dead please revive it

Why is it taking so long to remove the stupid AoE cap on Blade Flurry? Just nerf the damage or whatever you want but for God’s sake let me play my spec in dungeons.

The spec has been dead for a couple patches already and there seems to be no news regarding this issue.

Outlaw is literally a deadweight if you bring him to a dungeon, and please don’t come with the “oh but Sub is OP just play Sub”.

NO, I DON’T WANNA PLAY SUB I JUST WANNA PLAY MY SPEC THAT HAS BEEN KILLED FOR NO REASON LIKE SURV HUNTER WAS IN BFA.

Thanks.

9 Likes

agreed, though I just recently returned to outlaw, and rogue as a whole, I’m dreading getting into PvE as it, when there are specs out there that do 4 times your damage (I don’t know the exact numbers but the point gets across) due to tiersets, uncapped aoe, or what have you. I know outlaw was one of the kings of m+ in bfa, and I’m not saying return to that level, but as a very aoe centric spec, it should at the very least have a softcap, instead of hardcap on blade flurry, outlaw does good on 5 and less targets but it will fall behind on more than 5 targets.

1 Like

Absolutely - 100% agree.
This should literally be the number one balance change with the start of Season 4.(Among others)
(don’t even get me started on Outlaw’s pure single target dps/dmg)
The BF hard-cap has to be removed, not at the cost of BF’s dmg though. Outlaw rogue still hasn’t recovered from BFA’s 4 consecutive nerfs.(and that’s obviously excluding the aforementioned hard-cap)

I’m relatively “fine” with Blizzard pushing their agenda by over-buffing certain specs.
What i’m not fine with is deliberately sabotaging my spec.

True again. +1
"I just don’t want to play Sub, i like Outlaw better - please don’t render my spec useless"

The above should be printed into 50 x 50 inch poster frame and be hang right outside the Dev Team’s office.

People should play a spec because they enjoy it, not because that spec literally performs 30% better “cough” Current Surv Hunter / Destro Warlock sudden popularity burst “cough”

It’s extremely infuriating that any spec has to be buffed like hell to actually convince people to play it.

Balance the specs with a divergence of 2%-5% and let people decide what they want to play.

Bottom line - remove the Blade Flurry AoE Hard-Cap.

In game rogue Communities are salty about it.
Forum Posters are salty about it.
Streamers are super salty about it.

Nobody is happy.
Thanks

Be me: an altoholic
my warrior who is 10 item level lowers than my rogue sub optimal gear and covenant out dpses my main who I have tried for years on, even playing the meta covenant/spec.

Meanwhile further again you got classes like surv and lock–I’d even argue monk and DH who are just giga ooga booga damage

3 Likes

Well, in season one you would be the odd one if you played sub or assa. Everyone played outlaw in Shadowlands season one and especially in mythic+. However, in regards to raiding Outlaw has always been good where many fights have favoured outlaw over sub. Ideally, in raiding you would want to know how to play all three speccs since different fights favour different speccs.

However, I do agree that they must pay more attention to the balancing of speccs.

I think that this would generally be good. Keep the 5-target soft cap and increase hard-cap to 20 targets (like sub rogue). If the damage would be too high (relatively) if hard cap is increased to 20 targets then they could tune the dmg BF does beyond the soft cap at 5 targets.

I am not very proficient in outlaw but I can imagine that nerfing the damage of BF from e.g. to 40% to 30% and increase the soft cap to lets say 8 targets would not be a good idea either. You want BF to work as it does now for 2-4 targets and nerfing the soft cap dmg would also ruin the specc for all those 2-4 target boss encounters.

I also agree with this, but it is probably more difficult to achieve than we think. The problem is that the devs keep adding new stuff in the game that are not thoroughly play-tested, like the set-pieces. Another thing is that different classes and speccs scale better with the item level progression throughout an expansion where some speccs will perform better earlier on in the expansion than others.

2 Likes

You need to move ahead of the tank and take aggro with evasion for main gauche procs thats the real way to AoE as outlaw.

atm surv is the aoe king play along side them and you got 2 other spec’s you can play.

My problem is not with the performance of the spec, but the way it feels to play with it. I miss it when it was combat, and there was no RNG involved in the rotation. When blade flurry was uncapped, off the GCD, and it was an on/off toggle, instead of a buff with a limited time it lasts.

No, because the other 2 specs are gonna be Destro lock and WW monk/Fire mage.

It should also be off gcd, sure now it does some damage when you activate it, but that’s not the problem, the problem is that it just doesn’t feel great to use.

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My character sims 5k less “dungeon slice” dps than a survival hunter with 5 less ilevels. Compared to my warlock, the single and aoe damage on my outlaw rogue just isn’t competitive at all which is deeply frustrating as I enjoy the playstyle.

Surely its time to reverse the nerfs after S1 shadowlands and uncap bladeflurry again, or at the very least make it hit 8 targets for full damage and then drop off to 30% after that or something.

Currently, I can just rain of fire spam or even imposion cycle on my warlock in two specs which simply outdps my rogue with little to no effort. Whats more annoying is that even with the nerfs coming to destro, its getting a flat affliction buff which is now simming really well in 9.2.7 PTR.

I almost feel like we’re being pushed into a sort of support role in dungeons instead of a respectable damage spec.

I will first say, this is a serious thread necro, this post was made back in may, also if u look at M+ Charts, it’d appear outlaw is doing rather well overall realistically.

the 2 classes u comment on here.

Survuval hunter and Warlock. These 2 Speccs are confirmed to be hard nerfed at the start of next season, their nerfs were delayed due to the disruption it’d bring to competing teams to do it this late into a Season.

So it isnt so much your not competitive. as much as ur comparing yourself tothe FoTM as current whicvh are already confirmed being nerfed… which will reduce that gap ur concerned about.

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survival and lock is broken, that doesn’t look like its changing next patch. destro gets its tier set tuned, but everything else buffed 20% so it seems unlikely that the 40% dmg differential between locks and other specs is not going to drop by an amount that would remove them from the S Tier spot. WW monk has been pretty steady for the whole xpac also, they looked like they would get hit pretty hard after CN but with various buffs they’re in that ‘super good at aoe, decent st’ place just under the ‘this is so ungodly broken that it needs nerfing into the ground’ so they wont get any changes and they’ll ride out S4 as a comfy safe S Tier pick.
DH though… Idk where you get the idea that DH is even remotely close to the same tier as any of these classes. In raid its under the middle line of all specs in the game, decreasing with higher % logs. In m+ both havoc and vengeance combined make up about 2.5% over 25 level keys. Despite its huge popularity as a class and massive playerbase, the class is a complete joke rn. And in a significantly worse spot than rogue for sure. Try apply to a group in 25-28 bracket as one without a premade, you wont get an invite.

Honestly they need to remove aoe caps, there was really no reason to put them in. Having ‘niche’ roles where your class shines is cool, but in reality the majority of content is either a) ST or b) AoE, and AoE is of massive value in m+. Having a class that is gated from competing simply because of class design at this point is kind of a joke. And that stands for rogues/dh/w.e else as well. Every class should be able to do decent AoE at this point.
As things are right now we have had multiple cases of tuning for destro, for affliction and demo and nothing for the same few specs that are dragging behind. Affliction is the weakest of the specs, cool, but destro and demo are the top 1 and 2 specs in the game - for everything. Best ST, best cleave, best AoE potential. Its kinda stupid. Idk why we’re having buffs on locks and tier set tuning this late into an expansion when people were calling out for changes to any variety of specs on SL Beta when it came to tier sets/class tuning and have had nothing.
RIP us I guess.

Blade flurry should BE aoe capped like it was always intended to be.
It was target capped from vanilla to legion it has been uncapped for 2 expansions only over all the abilities in the game that should be uncapped this is not one of them.
Or at least it should be one of the last to be uncapped.

on big pulls outlaw is probably useless. mostly under tanks even

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