Outlaw is unplayable in 10.1.5

Classes Rogue
1

As expected, it feels awful to refresh SnD and press blade flurry when you have grande melee in ST. They wanted to escape from a said “useless buff” of grand melee when you stacked it for the entirety of a dungeon, and we ended up with a buff that’s mostly useless during single target. I’ll explain why:

The majority of the times we gain grand melee during a fight, is because we gain 5 secs of it from Count The Odds buff. Of course, when you gain it directly by rolling it via RtB, it makes sense to activate BF, however, if you only get a 5 sec duration you either (1) activate BF, lose a GCD and hope you gain another 5 secs of grand melee in the next 5 seconds it last, so you take full advantage of the 10 secs BF with increased damage; (2) don’t activate BF and get the CGD where u can cast ambush or something stronger, and cover for that 10% increase damage with that extra ambush or spender. The second option is gamba as well, because you might get extra 5 secs of grand melee soon due to CtO, and if you had activated BF you’d take more value because one extra GCD is worth for 10 sec increase damage. Basically, you have to gamble using BF or not during a grand melee obtained with CtO. It feels disgusting. Just one more split second decision to make. And a gamble one at that. Realistically, the majority of the players will press it only when you have a direct 30 sec grand melee charge from RtB, making it a useless buff if you get it due to a CtO proc. The rest will use it at all times and lose dps because the majority of the time you’ll get grand melee due to CTO and lose a 70k ambush to get 3 or 4 globals in with 10% increase damage that will be doing less than 70k. Especially if one of those globals is a SnD.

Please devs, if you can’t change things mid patch, make BF off GCD or make grand melee also grant slice and dice for x seconds, its the least you can do since you’ve effectively killed the spec.

3 Likes
2

They don’t know wtf they are doing so it’s no surprise.

They’ve been told since the start at how awful this small change was for gameplay, and they still went forward with it, just like they did with demo.

Unplayable? I have to say that’s a bit of an overstatement, but it’s definitely damaged.

Apparently the rogue dev had some problems, and wasn’t able to finish stuff, but if that’s the case, why even go forward with this? And let’s just say that this is not a good start if that’s the first thing that was thought of… Please don’t touch outlaw, i don’t trust you…

The people making decisions on this stuff need to re evaluate their decisions, or if they keep screwing up, their bossed need to re evaluate whether they are good enough to be developers.

Seriously, i’m not even joking, the mage stuff was mostly good, but pretty much everything else was either trash or passable, or anything in between.

Even the crashing chaos change all things considered is just barely good enough, and that’s one of the better changes, it’s just that they forgot to make gwd a class tree talent, so you could get gwd and rain of chaos which is one of the best things that ever happened to destro ever. Super awesome.

The aff lock changes were not bad, but they are also nothing special… The rogue changes were atrocious, the demo changes are CRIMINAL, seriously the one who thought that stuff up needs to never touch demo again.

3

This change to Grand Melee feels beyond terrible. Pressing SnD this much makes it even WORSE. I’ve never felt this amount of disappointment as an Outlaw Rogue player and main. This is far the worst ever change to the specialization in a long time.

1 Like
4

No complaints here. Pumping damage in mythics at the moment. Gave Echoing Reprimand build a try and that’s pumping even more.

5

The main issues with Outlaw (to be fair, some of them are Class wide issues), as I see them are:

  • SnD is still handicapping modern Class Design.
  • RtB is trying to do too many things.
  • Blade Flurry is very tricky to balance, as it is usually either brokenly OP, or way too weak.
  • Blade Flurry being used for ST feels bad.

Where I think the Devs went wrong was mistaking complexity in design, for interesting choices. However, a simpler overall design would offer more chances for decision making, which is overall more engaging and fun.

This is why I’d start with removing SnD completely. It is redundant, and all of its benefits can, and have been achieved without it. Removing the unnecessary maintenance buff - one which doesn’t actually give any meaningful feedback to you - would give room for some more engaging choices for moment-to-moment gameplay.

With RtB, I’d remove 2 buffs, specifically Grand Melee and True Bearing. Outlaw already has other mechanics doing these same things (except the Leech effect, which could be tacked onto something else easily enough), so it would reduce redundancy. Numbers could be adjusted accordingly, so the net result wouldn’t even be a nerf, just a reduction in needless complexity.

Blade Flurry either needs to have a significant upfront AE Damage component, or no GCD. I’d also remove the Target Cap, though maybe have reduced effectiveness after a certain threshold, say 6-8 Targets. Most importantly, Blade Flurry should remain a dedicated AE Ability, not something you use for Single Target.

1 Like
6

I’m fine with roll the bones having 6 buffs personally, but, buried treasure and grand melee should be changed.

Maybe true bearing should be slightly modified too.

What i would do is: Blade flurry soft capped, deals less damage over 8 targets but not no damage at all.

Blade flurry provides 1 combo point per target hit, 2 if you have one target and grand melee up, 3 with broadsides, and 4 if you also crit with broad and have seal fate, and the 8 target thing should be provided baseline, blade flurry should not be 5 targets baseline.

Grand melee could be kept as it is, if they change blade flurry to what i pointed out above, although it’s still a boring buff, buried treasure should provide 1 extra combo point to use as well as some energy regen, as for true bearing, i have no idea, i honestly don’t mind the current buff.

Slice and dice should be either passive for all specs or the old grand melee buff should be available to all specs at all times, but at that point, just make it passive.

1 Like
7

They mentioned Rogue being reworked and the addition of new support classes, I’m guessing Outlaw will become something like that.
At the moment you either play Sub or die trying something else.

8

They also said they plan not to rework any existing specifications into a support role. Outlaw players would probably be really upset if our spec got binned into some supportive character. I like standing toe to toe with my enemy slashing with swords having the extra benefits of stealth and else. As you want to minmax, I do agree on playing Sub, but some players like me just can’t bother playing that due to various reasons.

9

We’ll get our rework next expansion boys…

10

I mean Assassination is unplayable since Shadowlands. You are legit trolling playing assa/ outlaw in m+ rn.

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