Outlaw Rogue in 10.1.5

Hello! Since it seems Rogues are supposedly being looked at in the upcoming patch, I thought I’d drop in to make some comments again.
It’s disheartening to see that Mages and Holy Paladins have a full spread of changes to look at and comment upon already, and all Rogues have to go off of is a single change to Outlaw and perhaps the promise of more, but anyways;

So, I am absolutely 100% for changing Grand Melee. It’s an awful buff, especially on its own. Sometimes I’ll leave a keystone run with 35 minutes of Slice and Dice left, and think to myself ‘Wow, how much more damage would I have done if I didn’t get that turd of a buff so much?’
Or I’ll engage an encounter and in the middle of my opener, get told I already have SnD at a higher duration, wasting a second or so as I have to readjust my brain to a later point in the opener.

BUT this is such a weird thing to change it to. For one, this goes from making Grand Melee utter trash, to making it…utter trash in every circumstance except AoE. Because lmao, nobody is pressing Blade Flurry during ST.
Even more than that, it’s such a tiny improvement. Newsflash, we’re still hard capped at 5/8 targets unless we use Blade Rush, while most other classes have a soft cap. An RNG 10% buff to Blade Flurry is miniscule.

So, my two cents; for one, if Grand Melee is going to be changed, it needs to become something that is valuable in all situations, just like every other RtB buff.
And secondly, any improvement to our AoE is going to need to come in a much more substantial form; either give Blade Flurry a soft cap, or give Outlaw more options for hitting uncapped AoE (GREED, JUST GIVE US GREED).

Other than that, my feedback remains the same as it was back in Outlaw needs some kind of rework

They would be if it meant doing 10% more damage.

But I agree with your notion that the change to GM as it stands doesn’t really feel very creative. Its basically just an on/off switch for BF in ST and in AoE/Cleave it changes nothing.

It doesn’t mean doing 10% more damage; or at least, I’m not sure it does, based on the wording.
Blade Flurry doesn’t actually hit your main target as far as I know, so the only increased damage you’d get against a single target would be from the initial damage you get after activating Blade Flurry.

I don’t think the ability damage itself is what they mean. Since that would make it exceptionally weak. That would leave the only sensible conclusion to be that they probably just mean the amount of damage Blade Flurry transfers. And by the wording of it I also have to assume it would mean doing more damage to your primary target, with or without doing any cleaving.

And that makes sense. But its still not great imo

I agree that it doesn’t refer to just the on-trigger damage effect, but the transferred damage never touches the main target, so a 10% increase to that would still equate to nothing on ST.

It just feels like too many assumptions to conclude that the buff will increase main target damage while Blade Flurry is active. If it does do that, then the description needs rewording, and if it doesn’t…well, everything I’ve already said still stands.

Hence the very specific notion that it would

What they should do if they wanna continue with this change is that they need to fix blade flurry and slice and dice first.

Blade flurry should generate combo points, 1 for each target it hits with the initial damage. With grand melee it would generate more if it only hits 1 target. Also, they should increase the duration of blade flurry to at the very least 15 seconds. This would make blade flurry a more satisfying button to press. You would press flurry on cd in aoe, but you would hold it off in st with grand melee to benefit from it’s max duration.

But at the same time it wouldn’t feel awful to press because it would still generate combo points. 2 With grand melee and 1 target, 3 with broadsides, 4 if it crits with sealed fate and broadsides is up.

Second, they need to address slice and dice, it doesn’t add anything to the rotation, it’s just an annoying maintenance buff that should be removed, and then they adjust the energy regen/combo point generation, or it becomes a passive, or current grand melee becomes baseline for all specs.

Third, and this is beside the point, although it’s also relevant, buried treasure should give you 1 extra combo point to use.

And leech should stay on grand melee.

But as it is, this change is awful.

Yea, I’d love overcapping on CP every time I Blade Flurry, sure.


It already is??

Nobody wants to use Blade Flurry in ST and nobody will, because as I keep saying, this Grand Melee change will not affect ST damage.

Why? That would be such a hassle to keep track of and such a marginal benefit. Might not even be programmable depending on how Combo Points work.

Ok, sorry i thought i was talking to someone that was thinking, my bad.


Uh-huh. Sure thing bud

Yea i mean, you just stated that blade flurry feels perfectly fine to press, so yea, i don’t think you’re actually thinking. Along with other stupid stuff.

So this post is clearly low tier garbage that isn’t worth any attention.

If you think that then you are effectively saying that you think blizzard forgot about any kind of ST use for the new GM buff. They do some silly things sometimes, but im pretty sure they’re not that lost.

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I’m just reading the text and applying to how Blade Flurry works in the game. Yes, I do think Blizzard is that out of touch with Outlaw. If you can find anything on PTR that suggests this’ll be a ST increase, cool, but as far as I can see, there’s no such thing.

Blade Flurry feels awkward to press because it does almost no damage on its own - its another maintenance buff in a spec that already has too many. It needs to do higher burst damage, be a toggle, and/or have a longer duration, or adjustments need to be made to other abilities like SnD / BtE / GS / RtB.

The GM change is good but I’m really hoping that’s not the only change they have in the works.

As someone who has played the spec while Blade Flurry was just a toggle, and while it was a cooldown with no on-trigger damage, it feels significantly better to press than it ever did in those prior versions. All it needs is a higher target cap.
Any other improvements to Outlaw AoE need to come in the form of other means of inflicting AoE damage, rather than tweaking Blade Flurry more, imo.

This buff is pathetic.

If GM starts to work this way it becomes a problem because i have no control of the type of damage i am doing ,mechanically the game requires for me to have some control of the my aoe or st.

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That’s a very legitimate concern actually. There are totally times where you specifically don’t want to activate BF because you don’t want damage on the off target.

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In pvp you turn off the buff to avoid damage disable/blind targets it must feel amazing rolling GM during this time.

Yeah you pretty much don’t use it at all in PvP

All the more reason to find a different solution.