Warcraftlogs created a problem within the community and now they’re offering a solution… Hopefully it will help people look at what’s relevant now…
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I don’t think warcraftlogs created this problem. Blizzard did. There are two other examples of abilities that provide output to the raid, innervate and focus magic, and both of those give the player something in return baseline. PI feels awful because you get nothing, and the ability feels great to use on you.
If Kihra can remove every log with more PI’s than intentionally possible then at least logs are slightly more instructive, but it doesnt fix the feeling of having to give it up in the first place, or worse having to equip a legendary for no reason other than to have access to your own spell.
With the Fae guardians change it’s likely to get even worse, 30 seconds of CDR instead of 20 means if you give every CDR to a balance druid it’ll line their incarn up with convoke, there’s likely some insanity available to fire too with 30 seconds off combust. So that’ll be two spells shadow has that it doesn’t get anything from.
Bliz adding support elements to the game is cool, I’d support a spec being added to the game which focuses heavily on those elements, but trying to shoehorn it onto an existing spec with players that did not sign up for it is a terrible idea.
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About 2 month ago, I made the same post, you should see the comments I got there, very toxic people especially that alt monk…they just don’t get it.
I kind of understand also why they wouldn’t though, most people reading those forum posts here this are either healers (who don’t know what it’s like to compete vs people who have an extra BL), super casuals who don’t even understand how dmg logs works in the first place, or both.
I use to talk to a lot of people and pros/youtubers on dk’s discord channel and a lot of people agree so don’t worry you are not alone. Like you said, even Warcraftlogs took this matter into their own hands and the fix is live as of yesterday (and innervate for healers too).
I play a DK, and most dk’s in the top 5000 kills has 2x PI, so I had about 85-90 logs for some basic fights and those turned into 95 ish logs with PI (I had to literally beg a priest to PI, so he gave me 1x in those 2-3 fights), eventually I got sick of having to find a priest every time I want to compete, so I got burned out, maybe the hype will be back with that fix… Anyways, if you can make it to a 90ish range without PI you can just consider it a 95 tbh.
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You said it was PI’s fault that you did not do yellow logs, proved you 100% wrong because it was a raidwide dps problem and not PI problem because you got a yellow log when the fight was 1m faster which is the key to good logs, not PI.
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You thought that PI gives you 420 dps increase per cast whilst the sims show it as 425 per fight
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You said that PI is cheesing logs the same way healers overheal and cheese logs, whilst you dont even know how logs work and think overheal counts
Do i have to tell more?
You literally have very small idea of what youre talking about, you budge in the forums demanding an ability change for the “SOCIAL FAIRNESS” while its literally a 425 DPS loss just because you feel entitled to whine and blame others than yourself.
Therefore the only toxic person i see here is you, talking about things you dont know.
After you, a CE mage gave the same issue in another thread. We checked logs and we seen that the best 100 parse and the n10 100 parse had a differance of 820 dps. Which means even if someone makes 100 log with 2x priests giving him a PI or more and YOU get none you still can get a 100 parse.
So stop whining and dont call others toxic just because you have limited knowledge of the subject.
All right, here we go again. If you did some homework, since you are so insistent on checking my logs as example, you can see I got 95 parses on fights that are LONGER than others that were actually shorter just because of 420 dps. The fight you are so keen on referring to is the one I pushed a 98 at, and of course time will help. The facts are simple here, I had 90 parses on some fights, and they turned to 95 parses on the same fights with PI (some fights were actually longer).
That, I never said, just a fictional of your arrogant imagination. I told you 420 per fight, which is basically x2. Also, I will educate you with this again, your spreadsheet is very basic. If you understood how the game works you would understand that PI works best with other CD’s aligned so when you just cast PI on a 2min timer it doesn’t make any sense since your CD’s might not be up. Having said that, most of the damage we benefit from PI is on pull with army so maybe we get 300 dps boost from the first PI and 120 from the 2nd, or something like this if you want to know more go do some homework yourself I’m not here to give you a workshop.
Literally the one wrong thing I’ve said in the entire discussion, which was irrelevant really, but again, I understand why you hold on to it since it’s all you have really to discredit me.
It kind of seems you are delusional, as I have explained many times and you keep repeating the same trash argument, I don’t even know where the SOCIAL aspect of fairness came from but it’s hilarious, like most of your posts really. You don’t even understood my point that I don’t even want PI lol, I wish my class didn’t need it to compete so I can avoid people like you.
Well, no. Me giving my opinion about PI and you disagreeing is fine, it’s HOW you argue that matters. Like literally everywhere I go in the forums I can see you arguing people and everyone eventually ignores you, being a toxic little child that you are, I don’t even know why I’m bothering.
Lastly, comparing n10 100 parse with n1 parse is pretty dumb, kind of like most of your posts, given that you can be n3000 and be 95 parse (in one region), not to mention how most of these 3000 have 2x PI. As if I ever said PI will make me n1 or even 100…It did get me to 2k-3k range though which I felt good about…What an idiot you are…EVEN WARCRAFT LOGS AGREED IT WAS AN ISSUE AND IMPLEMENTED THEIR FIX, I guess you understand more than them 
You are also looking at overall, I care about per ilvl parses within time frames, that’s how you learn really. So go do some homework and maybe you can learn too. Nice talking to you again, clown.
You mean the thing you never did before you come here whining?
Nope you said 420 x 3 and you said literally 1000+ DPs increase because you dont understand even how sims works.
Its not my spreadsheet, its made by top tier players that usually know how sims work ^^
I dont need to discredit you, you already doing it by yourself.
You said it should be changed because its not fair if one person gets it, your delusional ideas even made an offer of PI being a raidwide CD which means it would be a mini BL on 2 min cd… Thats how… Relevant your ideas are.
If you go back and read my first replies and then see your replies you will understand why i argue like this.
Take an example here:
See?
You are so clueless to understand that even 800 dps increase wont increase your parses. You thought that 425 dps increase will make your 70 parses to 95+ and im making the dumb posts here?
Please man, take a look at yourself and most importantly what you write.
Well, both of you fighter guys made some good statements and i wouldnt call out ppl have no idea because they have different opinions or different sources of information. Only things than can be told are:
- 400 dps difference is really big. Its such a big gap and shouldnt be overlooked like its just one gem (even +1 gem is even a big upgrade). Its double the amount of a dps gain compared to upgrading your weapon from 220 to 233 and if you really care for parses (bracket and overall, but i for myself care more about bracket) even 20 sim dps can make a difference.
- You can really get the best parses without any external buff. There are definitely more factors than a PI for a good parse like whats your guilds level in damage which results in killspeed.
- It is clearly a big issue with the external buffs, thats why the creator of warcraftlogs decided to at least show the buffs.
- Its also a good thing to give external buffs because your raid can benefit a lot from it.
Its also interesting to see which classes definitely get more externals. I think the competition as shadow priest is not that affected like affliction warlock or fire mages.
No, I’m just toxic towards you, because of the way you talk, like literally everyone else on the forums that’s also toxic towards you. I will also post your first reply to my post down below so you can refresh your memory:
Yes, that’s entirely possible. For example, the top DK for hc Shriekwing is 9k dps, the 2nd is 8.2k. The 100th is 6.7k, the 2000th is 5.2k. Yet they are all 95+ parses. I just want to enter that range with fair competition. 420 dps IS HUGE especially when comparing by ilvl, and that’s final. I was at 90 parses WITHOUT PI and make it to 95 WITH PI WITH A LONGER KILL TIME. I will also say this again since you want to ignore it WARCRAFTLOGS AGREED IT WAS AN ISSUE AND IMPLEMENTED THEIR FIX Stop trying to argue around this and just accept it, your PI is bull**** and causes a lot of problems.
Dude, wherever you are in the forums, people all call you out and you make everyone you talk to become instantly toxic no matter the topic, and that’s just the stuff I’ve seen!!! God knows what would happen if I look into your account activity. I don’t know how you even have the arrogance to tell me to look at myself! Your hubris did really amass a debt you cannot pay
Yeah, I agree with the stuff you said, and like you said, I compare my performance mostly with ilvl, idk why this guy is comparing with overall dps.
Of course, but it makes think, since almost everyone in the top 2-3k logs have 2x PI, and you got in that range without PI, it makes you think how high you would have been if none of those other people had PI.
It is, but when the external buff is such a big dps increase (the biggest from any external buff except BL), and that buff is only for a single person, it creates a negative environment (outside of guild prog), whether it is arguing about who gets PI so they can try and get a shot at scoring higher parses, or when you see 4x PI’s per fight on top kills. I was trying to come up with an alternative for PI to fix that prob. One guy suggested that PI gives you a debuff per fight that you can’t get another PI, but for dk’s for ex, 1x PI is already huge and the 2nd is kind of a cherry on the cake, it’s nice but not necessary.
Being toxic because someone tells you the truth about your invalid whining arguments is immature im afraid.
You just revealed how invalid your argument is by yourself this time.
I am toxic?
That is not toxic though because from an entitled forum whiner like you?
Still, when im talking sense to someone who thinks that overhealing counts as healing in logs and healers cheat… The result of the conversation is always the same: Victim card pulling
Cutting out people’s points in half to make your point seem valid and ignoring all other logic that’s been said has been your most common technique in arguing, as pointed out by many people other than me. You might wanna work on that, as for the rest of your nonsense, I’ll ignore, cya around until next time, my friend the clown 
At least next time when talk about me, let me know. Dont do it “in the shadows” 
Well apparently Blizzard prohibits the use of character names on forums or something, so I don’t know how much more in your face I can be. Besides If I wanted to trash talk in secret, I would do it in another forum post, kind of like you did if I remember properly.
Since when you care about the forum rules when you constantly swearing and insulting?
Its obvious inside your nerdrage the last thing you care about is rules, anyone can spot it in your previous posts.
so a problem created by a third party is taken care of by the same third party, seems fair to me.
parsing is made by a third party and problems with parsing(as in your % and the like out of the norm) should be fixed by that same party and guess what they did.
so nothing wrong there.
that is not really a part of blizzards game but made trough a third party and said third party is fixing it.
what about windfury and some of the party only buffs just to mention that to, it is not really anything new, people just did not pay attention to it before now and it is a pure warcraftlogs problem.
heck if we take it to the extremse you could sickle a player to gain 2% main stat with a pretty good uptime by using necrolords close to the player, same with x% of secondary stats from other covernants just by being close to them, not sure about the uptime.
but for instnace getting a firemage 2% extra int for their combustion phase each time it is up would also imparct the logs some add in 3% vers on to that will just be a necrolord and a nightfay close by.
so PI is not really a problem
no they just got feed up with people complaining about it, there is a difference.
being anoing enough will get you what you want at least most of the time and this is one of them, some people just choose to be anoing enough for them saying screw it and made it so the problem is not there.
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This is not entirely true. They do understand it from experience with their logs for another game and implemented the change.
They also created FF logs for FFXIV and those logs show 2 performance values for dps, personal dps and raid dps. Raid dps figures in the contribution (or lack of) they have made by buffing others in the group. Personal dps ofc is what you personally did.
For the FFXIV player base it works really well as the jobs are designed with not only personal dps in mind that it is about the team and the community is good with it.
In wow it probably wouldn’t work so well and the compromise is highlighting parses where a person got an external. Also there isn’t a lot of these external buffs available in wow in comparisonto FFXIV, not to mention not all class perfomance is balanced around their “raid contibution” (e.g.bloodlust).
I wouldnt say that it wasnt due to the QQ, they are already experienced with understanding the issue at hand.
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Windfury does not reduce the output of the player using it, it’s a buff on the 5 player party including the user.
Power infusions current design either costs me a spell that’s part of my class, one that’s legitimately fun as hell to use and makes it play significantly better overall, or it costs me access to a legendary. Neither of those outcomes are enjoyable.
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but that is not really important as what they are arguing from is the parses, but the things influencing he parses is a lot more then just PI, so saying that PI is bad but every other spell that increases your dps from other people is not important so lets ignore that
I… What…
I’m not even talking about the parse perspective, I commented at the general decline of wcl as a primarily instructional tool but my concern about PI has never been primary one of parses.
Its fun to provide utility, it’s significantly less fun to lose pieces of your own spec that are enjoyable to use in their own right to do so. Even moreso when you get nothing back.
Argue with the op about why he says, don’t drag me into it as if we’re both speaking from the same perspective.
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This must be the most sad reason I have ever found to complain about buffs and utilities to be honest.
The more crap like the OP i see more i start to think this game should kill dps meters and logs lol.