Premades wht they really are for...!

If you could only have seen the aggro i was getting over whisper by people in higher brackets that do premades and wanted me to join them with the threat of never being able to get higher unless I do. NO - pug group pvp bg’s are one of the ONLY existent ways a solo player can achieve anything - yes its a grind - ALL play demands grinding as a solo player. Blizzard must seperate the two - premade people go play your premades but LEAVE US ALONE that want to play pug bg’s. What i went through today is plain abuse and harrassment and must NOT be tolerated by Blizzard.

Blizzard they are using PREMADES to higher bracket levels so they can control other peoples game-play. On these grounds I would take BG’s away from the lot of you. Abuse MY system and GAME I would close the game down.

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You’ve already got an ongoing thread about the exact same thing: Ive been trying hard to hold back but - #82 by Ringol-ashbringer

Stop crying. It’s just a game. :crazy_face:

For real though, bracket mafias are definitely disgusting. But don’t conflate bracket stacking with premades, there are proper premades who just plays for their own amusement instead of trying to control their entire faction’s ladder via blackmail and intimidation.

Report the ones trying to force you into something. They’re clearly harassing others.

Stop crying like a little schoolgirl though. It’s disgusting. You’re not entitled to anything.

And please don’t spam a bunch of threads about the same thing. Damn crybaby.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with premades and controlling brackets.

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Nothing wrong with premades, but the way the brackets are controlled matters quite a lot. Via extortion and intimidation is morally wrong and probably falls under the umbrella term ‘harassment’ in the ToS (my own subjective opinion).
If it’s via mutual agreement then there’s no problem in bracket stacking. But to force outsiders to follow it isn’t exactly “right”.

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No one is forcing anyone to do anything. If outsiders don’t want to follow the bracket caps, they’re free to play however much they want.

Don’t expect anyone to want to play with you, if that’s what you choose to do, however.

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That’s the blackmail part. Sure, not inviting them to a premade you’re running is one thing, but to threaten with social blacklisting for other things too is pserver garbage.

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Why? Why would anyone want to play with someone who’s selfish enough to try and mess things up for others players after being given the opportunity to cooperate, because they couldn’t wait thier turn?

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Because you have no legitimate right to dictate how others play their game as long as everyone is following the rules set by Blizzard.
So to threaten with social blacklisting is pserver mafia garbage and to verbally harass is definitely harassment.

As I said, through mutual agreement then there’s no problem. But for you to claim the right to dictate over others in such a way is morally repugnant. They have the right to disagree, and to use their available hours to their fullest.

Social mafias that blacklists others from trade chat, from pugs, from all of that, just because of bracket stacking, is disgusting.

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And they’re not. Anyone can play however they want, but actions have consequences. Same thing as if you have a new guild every week, don’t be surprised when no guild ends up wanting you, because you have a reputation as a guild hopper.

Absolutely, they can try and break brackets if they want, just don’t be surprised when others don’t want to play with you for doing it, because it’s a douchebag thing to do.

If I was running a pug, I wouldn’t want the guy responsible for three of my regulars having to miss raids due to raised bracket caps in my group, and I don’t think that’s a very strange opinon to have.

That’s the effect of social normalization. Which, surprise surprise, originates from pserver mafias. You don’t think it’s weird. It’s perfectly normal to think so in your eyes.

But it’s actually socially destructive, resulting in extreme in-groups and out-groups, where the out-groups are socially frozen out. For playing the game as they have a right to do. That isn’t normal. I understand you won’t think of it as abnormal since you’re already very clearly too used to it already, but it is not normal.

If it were a circle of business giants doing it to a small business that’s trying to break into the same industry, you’d think of it as an unfair monopoly. There are antitrust laws for that.

It’s anti-competitive behavior, is another way of putting it. It’s predatory practices, only meant to elevate the few chosen, with a very volatile and unregulated queue which is always prone to corruption, and “favors for buddies”.

They don’t call it a mafia for nothing, you know?

That’s why I’m telling you, through mutual agreements then it’s all fine. Everyone understands and agrees in that case. But to enforce it via threats is immoral, and socially harmful.

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Feels like we’re just going in circles here, but it’s not really threats in my opinion, it’s just how things work in a community driven, social game. If you behave badly, people won’t want to play with you, it’s just that simple.

Yeah, that’s very simple. Socially freezing out ninja looters was one of my favorite aspects to a proper community like in Vanilla.
But controlling the brackets is a different context. There are demerits for the people being threatened, if they for example have time to get it now, but won’t have time for it when their turn in the queue would come up. There’s no guarantee the system set up with the queue would guarantee their spot, even if they wouldn’t have much time to play.
There’s also a problem with varied levels of corruption, some running without any corruption whatsoever, while others keeps promoting friends for reasons like “we’re pushing world firsts, so our guild calls dibs on all spots until we’ve all gotten it” or things like that. Other examples are stuff like “my best friend/girlfriend just started a new main and needs full r14 to get invited to raids, so s/he will be the next in the queue. Because I say so.” and so on.

It’s inherently different from an objectively bad thing to do like ninja looting.
It’s literally anti-competitive behavior. You only think it’s right because it’s normalized in your eyes.

I disagree.

Should have planned better.

APES did this, and the simple solution if you don’t like it, is to just farm more than the people doing it. But good luck with that.

Not experienced this myself, I’m sure it happens, but I’d like to think most people probably wouldn’t be ok with that. It’s not like the bracket leader is some kind of dictator that can do whatever they want.

Yes, because competing against people on your own team makes no sense what so ever.

Except it isn’t on your own team. Like the OP was describing. There are bracket mafias putting really lazy low bracket caps for their own convenience, and enforcing those caps with threats to every single outsider who gets near it and won’t accept being placed furthest back in the queue, even if they aren’t even aiming for a high rank to begin with.
There’s also the issue with how some might be trying to stack stuff like bracket 11 or things like that. Like, what the hell?

Anyway, point is, it’s anti-competitive behavior. And the context is different, even if you disagree. As explained earlier.

And some don’t have that freedom.

I keep telling you, you only think it’s right because of social normalization. Yet you keep showing examples of that effect over and over again, for… some reason?

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As much as it pains me to say this but beware is 100% right

no group has the right to tell anyone how to play the game if a solo ranker is breaking the brackets good for him, he deserves the higher rank as it’s alot harder for a solo ranker than a premade to gain honor why don’t you and your mafia buddy’s do more bgs then nobody has the right to tell anyone to stop pvping they pay for the game let them play how they please.

Does the classic PvP system suck yes completely but trying player made systems to force other players to do the bidding of some group is just wrong.

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Agree but if there is harassments its a different think. It’s good to have bracket caps but if they are too low breaking them should be acceptable. If i remember correctly this was your quote in a similar post.
“We don’t know exactly what happened”
Did you reach r14?

Another reason why TBC is vastly superior to Classic.
The garbage rank system is replaced with honour points so everyone can just work towards their gear at their own pace and arenas were added for people who want to actually compete against each other.

-No more bracket mafias.
-PUGs actually become playable.
-Premades all but lose their relevancy.
-You have to actually do PvP to get a good PvP rank.

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Absolutely, everyone is free to play the game however they want, and if they want to pvp a lot and try and solo rank, that’s completely fine, I just think it’s perfectly reasonable for people to dislike you for breaking.

I agree, if people are trying to put br1 at 400k or something, that’s delusional and they’re pretty much asking for breakers, but at the same time, if you break, the people who are ranking are obviously going to dislike you.

No, I never intended to go to 14 and stopped at 13, but despite me finishing like 9 months ago, I still absolutely hate the people who forced our caps to be upwards of 2m because they were selfish and wouldn’t take br3 when they were several ranks below everyone currently in br1/br2.

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Which is unjust entitlement. What happens is that it’s a system designed for people to compete for spots, against each other. But when people stack the brackets, and someone breaks it, the socially acceptable response is to meet the challenge and compete fairly. Because it’s supposed to only be an agreement, so if someone doesn’t agree then you have no moral high ground where you can say you deserve it more than the other person. No matter what.

But what happens is that these mafias, they use underhanded methods like blacklisting people, sometimes even from the inner circle of the largest guilds on the server and sometimes even more, in order to punish those who tries to compete with them. Instead of actually just competing with them fairly.

Like I said, it’s anti-competitive behavior. It’s why there are antitrust laws for it in society when it’s about business practices. It’s not normal. It’s morally reprehensible.

There are other examples I can give you, I suppose…

Let’s compare this to arenas. While wintrading has been exposed on such a large scale already, so it’s not like it’s entirely hypothetical, but let’s say you’ve got the entire group of every r1-eligible player agreeing who should get what rating just for the heck of it. Like who should be ladder 1, 2, 3 and so on.
Let’s say they stack the entire r1 part of the ladder, down to the predicted lowest rating for it.

But then you’ve got those below trying to break that stacking. So all the r1, let’s say they’re all on the same server, including those under r1, for simplicity’s sake.

So when they try to break that stack, because ofc they also want r1, the r1 players would blacklist them on the server, badmouth them on twitch/youtube and so on. Let’s say they’re highly influential too, so it becomes hard for these guys to do anything.

Let’s also assume there’s no xrealm ofc.

Anyway, just by changing the circumstances, yet describe the exact same behavior it should show you just how morally disgusting that actually is.

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But People who rank, dont like!! Bracket breackers.

So they choise!!! Not to play with them
It aint blackmail
Aint not co trolling annyone… Or force some one…
Its called. Action - - - reaction
If u ninja loot, People dont wnna raid with you.
If u rude or toxic, People dont want guild up with you.
If u break bracket People dont wanna premade with you.

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