Protection paladin gets probably nerfed in season 2

I just cannot stand how Blizzard always fails to properly balance this class as a whole. Paladin is either a joke or it’s extremely broken and gets nerfed into oblivion.

Like right now protection paladin is literally a tank without any real weaknesses he has: free heals and sustain, strongest immunity in the game, personal cleanse, ability to combat rez and rez outside of combat, great utilities and great dmg.

You should be really squishy outside of consecration but you’re not currently, in the Valdrakken almost everyone is being protection paladin because it’s just free keys with him when you are good paladin.

I hope paladin gets one day properly rebalanced so it won’t be either poop nor broken.

Blizzard can’t balance anything. Some classes just gets away with it, while others get nerfed immidiately.

Guess the crying of the meta players was too much.

We’re really strong right yea, but saying we should be tanky only in consec is cringe af. Consec should be put out of mitigation kit entirely and just baked in. It is the most annoying prot pala part as you want to move a lot in current raid and keys to keep chain pulling. They can probably nerf bubble cdr on resolute defender to only be 0,5 per rank instead of 1s per rank to lower the frequency of bubble usage. Combat rez for prot takes 3 holy power which is fair price to pay for it with our current holy power generation. It’s not in a absolutely broken tier, it’s just really strong just like it was in s2 SL. If anything they shouldn’t nerf prot at all but buff Guardian druids heavily and DHs a bit to make those 2 more in line with rest for keys.

Says the blood dk who is always a good tank and also doesnt have that mich of a weakness.

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I’m Unholy but nice try.

Nah, I would say as far as tanking blood dk is way stronger than paladin, it is literally unkillable right now. It just doesn’t have the damage, utility and off-healing paladin tank can bring. Retribution paladin deserved the nerfs but not protection.

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Plz read my post, and plz be careful.

Thank you kindly for your time.

~ Lania

This logic (or lack of it) always makes me laugh. Address his point, not the class that made it. That or ask your pets to post, they’d make better points.

Probabbly, Prot is immortal pretty much now. as 420 in prot it is impossible to die. Even tanked some +20 with it and damage i take is laughtable.

374 itemlvl DK crying when dancing in the same spot during Raszageth fights while paladins are not even taken because they have to pop immunity and thats not even enough. For M+ Prot pala is great and a close second behind good prot warriors in my opinion …saying this while playing all tank specs except monks.
You are extremely casual since you dont even have the 395 super-easy-to-get catchup gear but you want to cry about balance :smiley:
First you might want to start some end-game content to base your opinion in reality instead of your feelings. Dk is not bad …if you would cry as a guardian druid that would make sense since there are plenty of issues starting with a boring gameplay that should be fixed. Also you might want to get familiar with the statistics that you can find at many places - for example on icyveins - about how each class/spec perfomed during each patch since the beginning of the game …end in your case after the birth of the DK class. DK is up there :smiley: prot pala is not. Tanks usually are in an okay state most of the time because they have to be. Most of the playerbase mains dps specs and as a tank or a healer you have to usually pay more attention to the game because the game is more punishing not only to you but for your whole group or raid if you mess things up.

You have 2x10 and 2x8 M+ keys done so far :smiley: You can tank 2-8s even with crafted blue gear and get carried easily by ppl who goes in for bonus valor. After that it would get harder but with a good healer a 350 itemlvl tank can manage 10s too.
You are too casual or lazy to invest time into getting geared :smiley: even when you can skip all the m+2-10s by farming for a few hours for the catch-up gear and have 395 itemlvl for free.
Next time you want to cry for nerf play the game pls on the level you are crying about, thank you.
With the retri rework prot paladins were actually nerfed. Their HP scaling went down from 50% to 35% and their armor scaling went down form 30% to 15% to compensate for the sanctified plates talent that they for some reason put in on the spec tree instead of the retri talent tree. This caused prot to lose a small amount of HP in this patch and forced them to take this new talent with 2 points to get back where they were armorwise. The damage was moderately increased for aoe with certain builds and slightly reduced for single target which was a bad decision since prot had decent aoe and bad single target dmg already.
But these changes were minor ones. My worry is that with the nerfed HP and armor scaling they didn’t think about the next season and the item level increase. While everyone will jump like 30 item levels other tanks will have the same benefits as before from the increased stats but prot paladins will fall behind with HP and armor with the 50% to 35% and 30% to 15% scaling nerf. Then your wish would come true and prot would fall to F tier.

But let me ask you something. Why does it bother you that prot paladins are good atm? Does it take anything from you? As a tank you will be invited in groups easily if you dont have any friends to play with. Pugs are always in need of good tanks and DK tanks are not bad. Also just because druid tanks are not the best there is they get invited into groups too. With better gear you will easily outscale the dungeons and as long as you are not a bad player who would stand in stuff he shouldnt and you pop your cds at the right time you will be good.
So instead of crying for the devs to ruin a spec why dont you post something about the class you play and feel its weak? Ofc DK is not weak but you could write about how that class and spec could be improved instead of trying to ruin something that you dont even play with.
I never understood this “if I feel like my spec is bad the other specs must be ruined too” mentality. And again …you dont even play the game on any decent level. You are extremely casual with your DK judged by your itemlvl and accomplishments if we can call honor level 1 and 0 pvp experience or 2x10 and 2x8 M+ or 374 item level accomplishments at all…
I cannot take you seriously with these stats :confused:

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I hope you realize that high-end gear meant to make high-end content easy. The guy you reacted to has 374 itemlevel. Sure in 420 item level I can’t die either but 20s are not even that amazing in 420 many ppl do higher keys than that with ease. Don’t compare 420 itemlevel to a casual player please. He has 0 experience with high-end content. It is relatively easy for a casual player to be between 400-410 itemlevel. He is not even on that level but he could easily do 14-15s with that gear even in pugs and average skills. If he gets some decent players in his pug he could even go for 16-18s

The problem with Paladins in general is their immense utility, that can deal with pretty much any situation. In the past it was somewhat offset by short periods where Prot was quite squishy and they didn’t offer a combat res either, but when that’s no longer the case they don’t actually have a big weakness anymore. With the new talent trees you can spec into pretty much everyhing that’s good at the same time.
If my survivability is roughly the same as a Prot Paladin, but they also offer more damage (at least on AoE), off heals, BoP, Sac, Cleanse, dmg reduction auras vs me who brings AMZ… Why on earth would a group want to bring anything else than a Prot Paladin?
I’m lucky enough to play with friends so I don’t need to swap to fotm every season, but sometimes I still feel bad when I know much more I could offer the group by re-rolling.

I get that it’s fun to be strong, and nobody wants to get nerfed. But in the current state we are in a situation where one tank offer the same toolkit for M+ as 2-3 other specs combined. Top Prot Paladin players are even able to do keys without a healer in the group.

There needs to be a reason to bring one of the other 5 tanks over paladin in at least some scenarios. Outside of cheesing some bosses with prot warrior spell reflect or having knockbacks for sanguine weeks, I can’t really think of many situation where there is a benefit to having something else than a Prot Paladin as a tank.

Paladins did get nerfed but not as much as you say, we went from 50% stam passive to 35% and 10% one which ends up at 48,5% overall stam scalling which is minor nerf, armor went up cause of strength increase on Seal of Might and having now 20% armor and 15% armor passives which net 38% armor scalling.

Petergripping you don’t just bring AMZ, dks are literally unable to die when played well and provide grips like your name suggests, BDK is literally 2nd best tank right now for raid as it’s simply better later bosses(namely diurna p2 mythic and raszageth p1 mythic) than warrior. Sure m+ it’s not as powerful as ppal but doesn’t need to be. BDK had their time in s3 and s4 SL for M+ to shine a lot. we should be worried about guardian druids not getting any attention and a bit about vdhs. Not BDKs.

Having great self sustain isn’t group utility though, and while grips are very nice it doesn’t really keep people from dying. I agree that BDK is in a pretty decent spot atm, except for low damage. Our niche is taking care of ourselves, but group utility is limited. It’s a fair trade-off if the intent is that tanks should have pros and cons. But at the end of the day I have pretty much no control over the surbivability of other players in my group. Outside of AMZ I have no buttons to press if someone is in trouble.

I just don’t see many cons to playing Prot Paladin atm, at least not for M+. I can’t say much about raiding, as I only play M+.

I’m not a fan of nerfing specs, but like I said we are in a situation atm where one tank checks all the boxes of what you’d want for M+ at least. I would really like to see some of the underperformers being brought up a bit.

I don’t really have any suggestion to how Blizzard should address the overall strength of Prot Paladin vs other tanks for M+. I think the main issue is that Paladins have such a broad toolkit and with the talent tree redesign, most of it became available at once. The same case could be made for Prot Warriors, but they never had much group utility in the first place. Their redesigned tree just enabled them to facetank even better than before, but their ability to support the group is mostly the same as before.

You say that while there was 2 seasons of Blood DK doing this just before this season.

The whole Prot paladin being meta has existed for what 2months or so out of a 5month patch so far where 3 months have been Prot warrior meta.
(funny enough it will be 3 months of prot warrior and 3 months of prot paladin as meta tanks if nothing changes before the season ends)
It took til people had pretty close to max ilvl gear before Prot paladin became meta this season.

Grips are insane group utility, saying it does not stop people dying you literally have a cast stop by using it and more.
AMZ is literally better than most Healers major Cooldown in m+ content.
It is insanely strong.
Blood dks seems to undervalue how freaking strong your utility set actually is and it is kinda sad that other people have to make you understand it.
Just the fact of being immortal, means the healer do not need to focus you at all, meaning you can bring more squishy dps specs, that do more damage in those high keys.

Blood DK do a lot of things that just helps the group do more damage naturally.

You play Blood DK did you know that in Legion Blood Dk was Soloing competitive dungeons?
They did not make it in time but they could do the dungeons.

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Lets be honest, it all comes down to damage. Paladin did all the same stuff when bdk or warr were strong, its just now they do all this and deal damage.

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To be even funnier we do less utility stuff than before 10.0.7 as we lost 2 points in class tree for utility picks( went from having 16 mandatory points for m+ to 18 points so we no longer can pick 4 of: HoJ cdr 2/2, bop, 1min sac,2target freedom(albeit this wasn’t there prior to rework), Auras of swift vengeance, golden path. we can only pick 2 of these now. poison dispell+blinding light is in the 18 mandatory points as there’s no way we don’t take blinding light for all dungeons and only efficient way to it is through pois dispell)

And again I am not saying grip isn’t strong. But you’re comparing apples to oranges. You’re comparing the ability to lock down a caster mob with extra grips or set up pulls, to being able to heal people from 20-100% HP with WoG. Not to mention all the unavoidable damage which are just healer checks. Once AMZ is on cooldown, that’s it for my ability to save someone. Basically I can easily keep myself alive, but there are plenty of situations where I am sitting at full HP while the rest of the group is struggling, and there isn’t much I can do. Now, I think that’s a fair trade-off, although I wouldn’t mind doing a bit more damage.

The issues with Paladin is they bring something for almost any situation. Now personally I’d love it if Blizzard did some effort to bring the least desired tanks up a bit, like Guardian Druid and VDH. But it’s more likely they will do something to Paladins.

I would guess that’s still possible. I’ve soloed some +19-20 tyrannical bosses, but it’s not really that useful if it takes 10 minutes.

Paladins usually did great damage though, at least in AoE situations. But Blizzard simply fixed most of their weaknesses, which for the most part was getting crushed when they had gaps in their mitigation. And they can also combat res now. Again, not saying it’s a bad thing but seems to me that some tanks got left behind, most notably Druid and DH.

I think it’s just a very hard spec to balance properly. You can’t just take away their damage or survivability either. Because then we are back to a situation where Paladin is only viable in the hands of a great player.

So fresh numbers from this morning.
Out of 500 tanks, we got 364 paladins, 64 warriors, 31 dks, 17 monks, 15 dh’s and 9 druids

so …
72,8% paladins
12,8% Warrior
6,2% DKs
3,4% Monks
3,0% DH’s
1,8% Druids

Regardless what spec is on top, it can be THAT huge a difference.
Nerf deserved when you see keys without healer - with tank doing majority of interupts, all healing and big damage :))))

Are you rememebring to only have each person count 1 time?
because if you do not do that you will get a massive amount of 1 class like always.

That difference is common it is around this that you see every season if you are just counting like that.
There is a reason why we call it Meta.

Out of 20 000runs there are 0.001% of those without a healer.
There was as much of a chance to find runs made with warrior when warrior was the meta tank this season doing keys without gear on as you do finding keys without a healer.
Out of 20 000 runs those people that are doing this are running with gear capped characters BEFORE they start to do this on everyone except for 2 groups that did it before they was gear capped and those 2 groups have been doing this for years even when paladin was not meta.

If blizzard are to balance the game because of this then blizzard needs to do balance almost every time someone figures out something new even if it does not become meta.

I do not disagree that paladin is over the top right now but we are talking half of a season not even the first half of a season has been paladin meta tank.