I would love to see SoTR becoming a passive buff we get from using Avenger’s Shield kinda like they did with Stagger because reapplying SoTR every 4-5 secs ain’t really fun and it does take away our choice when it comes to spending Holy Power. Also buff the damage output of HoTR’s AoE/BH/Consecration to compenstate for the lost damage from SoTR.
Add a new Holy Power spender as a more offensive choice instead of WoG. Making us finally have a choice between Offensive/Defensive spender and not just two defensive once where one is the obvious choice. Divine Storm wouldnt be totally bad to have.
Make it so one aura is always active, its really annoying when you lose your aura when zoning into some areas. And last but not least either remove or change Retribution Aura for all three specs its an Aura it sholdnt be a personal buff.
SotR stacks up to 13 seconds, so you can spam it up to a cap if you’ve got the haste. Casting SotR at 9 seconds of the buff left is of course a waste of resources, so it’s something you can try tracking. Your rotation doesn’t need to be a case of waiting for SotR to drop off to reapply it.
I agree that there are times when our resources are capped, maxed SotR, maxed holy power, and a stacked Shining Light buff that’s just waiting to be used. That is partially a case of outgearing content / during bloodlust, (I also don’t have ideal haste pieces atm so I’d reckon it happens more often for those who do), so I agree that having an offensive spender would be nice, be it AoE or ST. This is partially covered with the AoE legendary for mythics as essentially the combo of AS + SotR is now your offensive spender on packs.
I disagree that SotR is applied with Avenger’s Shield - the idea of resource management via Holy Power and spending it on Active Mitigation makes sense and should stay, or at least remain in a similar form. Changing it to one single ability over Holy Power would change too much in terms of legendary choice and the CD of it would need rebalancing, having an impact on stat prio / etc. It would just be too big of a change.
I think a small buff to SotR mitigation would be welcome - there are situations where I think it’s more effective to not use SotR and simply drop low just to spend 3HP for a 60-70% heal over the SotR (as much as my healers hate that I’m turning into a blood dk), so some kind of change is needed.
Personally I would welcome a change like that very much! Currently at high keys (for me 10+) i struggle to keep a consistent SotR buff uptime as I need to spend alot of holy power on WoG. And when it get’s really tough I usually end up with a priority rating of like 70-30 in favor of WoG. To me it just becomes kind of a bad cycle where you’re always «behind».
Currently got a haste around 21%. Don’t really feel like that haste is giving me that much breathing room tbh. Also trying to raise my versa atm, as I feel it helps me out much more than the mastery buff to cons.
Yeah, but it stacks duration. To be honest it would be nice if value also stacked to 2 stacks. SotR is pretty bad ATM. Prot after some first “barely any mitigation” phase would at least be a little bit better against physical damage.
Prot Paladin against magic is designed to pretty much interrupt the casts or heal through that (+ Blessing of Spellwarding). So that “hole” is pretty fine. But right now physical damage hurts like hell anyway
I would rather prefer 2 stacks of SotR than baseline Holy Shield, because it’s RNG and forces you to have threat in front of you. This is very serious disadvantage in “kiting meta”.
I always see this as circling the drain. You’re taking a lot of damage (because of no sotr) so you feel the need to heal, so you waste the HP that could reduce damage taken so you can heal because you took too much damage…
Just hit sotr, and resist the urge to WOG, you’ll be a better tank for it. I’m sure you’ll die occasionally as you adjust but I’d bet that a 70:30 ratio in favour of sotr is more what you should be aiming for.
Could always try to switch it up I guess. That will most likely put more pressure on the healer when keeping the rest of the grp alive though. Especially on grevious weeks.
Yeah prot is quite squishy in higher keys, but can tank it completely fine. @Hammerpunch, you’ll need higher ilvl to tank keys above 10 and not feel like paper (or have a well geared rshaman covering your back). There’s a bit of an offsync with how much dmg the keys do vs what ilvl gear they drop, and on top of that paladin is one of those tanks that isn’t meant for ‘progression’.
However, make a nice UI that allows you to react fast to your health being chunked, keep track of divine purpose / shining light stacks and procs, prioritise SotR and cast WoG when it’s free, and you’ll be ok otherwise use ardent defender / kings as frequently as you can (almost on cooldown).
Yeah, my ilvl is probably a little low for those high keys. I’m able to stay alive, but it’s a pain at times. Tried to focus more on SotR compared to WoG, and it worked better.
Blessed Hammer reduces damage that enemy does to you by 10% rather than some fixed value (so it’s giving at least SOME non-RNG spike protection)
Maybe Ardent Defender made 30% reduction rather than 20%?
1 min CD defensive is added to toolkit. My idea:
“Shields of Light” (or whatever, can be animated as mini shields made of light that orbit around Paladin) - increases block chance by 20% and makes block efficiency 50% stronger, allows blocking attacks from all directions for 8 seconds. 1 min CD.
This 50% means block is not reducing received damage by 30% but 45% while this is on.
I know it’s still RNG defensive, but it would help a lot when Paladin needs to “kite out” from mob pack and can’t actually turn back to them.
The mastery being tied to consecration has to go. I’m starting to shudder at the idea of a fight where you have to move the boss and not benefit from the %DMG reduction of being inside your AoE. Already on pull we’re seeing the huge damage spike coming in as we try to build holy power to start SotR.
Such a weird design to be tied to mastery, none of the other tanks have any such issues it seems. Very interesting when you wanna kite anything in M+.
Don’t think prot paladin is a weak tank . It is still better than prot warriors and even blood dk’s I think. It probably is behind bears and vengeance dh’s though.
Every tank spec can do 15s and even 20s in m+ every tank can do the raid.
But to give an example on how important standing in consecration is for a prot paladin Mastery does nothing it does not exist when you do not stand in consecration, and on top of that standing in consecration by itself is a 3% damage reduction.
For me standing in it is a 10.9% damage reduction.
That is 11% damage reduction that is useless if i can not stand in consecration.
(and this paladin is not well geared or even optimized stat wise.)
Well, Ppal at least has great use for mastery. It’s as good as vers and slightly lower than haste. For BDK or Pwar it’s a dead stat as it is since it provides abysmall absorb and abysmal block/critblock chance (with AM being 100% block lol). And how ppl can’t utilize it is beyond me. Switch to other tank than if you can’t work around a huge AoE with 3.5 sec CD/12 sec duration? I’m nowhere a skilled player, yet I have it’s buff for 80% of fights at very least according to logs. So it’s 100% persistnant when facetanking. When you kite on the other hand, why the hell would you ever need it’s DMR effects if you are not getting hit in melee? With a talent it’s larger and provides an amazing 50% snare. With conduit, it heals for absurd amounts. Almost 280hp per 0.8 sec with 18% vers and 200ilvl conduit (207ilvl geared pally). Sorry, but you ppl are pampered af if you consider this a problem. I’d gladly trade my warr’s extra armor (10% more physical which is outweighted with 14% to ALL dmg) and be tied to Conc for those bonuses. You, on the other hand, may run around as much as you wish with that extra armor if you think it’s better. Everyone’s happy.
Icy-veins tells a different story but ok.
Also they do say this “For Protection Warriors, the value of each stat is very close together.”
Acording to them Mastry sits at the same place as it did for Ppaladin in BFA that is number 3 and for Ppala it is number 2 now.
You are right in that Blood dk does have it as the lowest stat.
But you are simply wrong when ti comes to Prot warrior.
There is this thing called Ranged mobs and Casters there is also this thing called Damage over time effects.
Thunder clap on Warrior is larger then consecration in area of effect.
3.5second cooldown that is a joke it is 4.5seconds none hasted.
and the increase is the same as the increase on thunder clap.
I see you forgot the very first basic thing that the % you mention is with mastery the stat, ADD your mastery effect critical block on top of it and the extra HP you have as a warrior and you can start to talk. And with devo aura something you can have as a warrior by being in a group of a ret or a holy paladin.
This is the problem when you do not understand the basic differences.
And do not get me going on how freaking strong some of the conduits for Prot warrior is.
The problem is not when we can stand in it the problem is it is on the gcd and there are times when you can not stand in it there are times when you get hit when you do not have it up and by simply not having it you take a LOT more damage than you normally would.
As an example as long as you stand there you do not need to do anything for mastery to work on a Prot warrior it just works and is very strong it is a bit random but the spec is balanced around it being random.
For Prot paladin you need to press a button and it can work or it can not work it all depends on how you as the player needs to move but the spec is Balanced around it having a 100% uptime
I play pwar, unlike you. Referring to some guides written for masses, is a pathetic argument. If you don’t play a spec, how you even dare to claim smth?
Oh yeah I forgot. Other tanks can mitigate those, unlike poor paladin with it’s clunky mastery. Oh, wait…
You ok there? You compare an instant AoE (smaller w/o CT talent - ez to check, but you don’t play warr, right?) to a AoE that persists for 12 sec, has 20% more slow and deals DoT. AoE which you can leave on mobs’ path w/o the need to melee, like warr. Again you show zero knowledge on how other tanks work. Warrior struggles with kiting bc he cant keep agro in range, unlike paladin with Conc/Jug/AS.
Again you ok there? Who tf spoke of Aura? I referred to mastery and mastery only. It is a valuable stat for paladin, unlike warr. Meaning you can gather both Vers and Mastery w/o hitting DR on stats. Warrior has to grab Vers with less and less profit due to DR cap. Mastery gives literally nothing to warr if you simly do basic math, which you don’t. You already have 50%+ passive DR. Blocking reduces the rest by 30-40%. Add IP and you already recieve nonexistant damage. Critblock is just a useless overkill with abysmal effectiveness. And FYI every spec has base amount of mastery (~ 5% for Conc DR baseline), like every other stat, so you can’t just delete it from calculations even if you manage to get 0 from gear.
The problem is I DO understand the basic differences bc I DO play the specs, I talk about. If your point comes only from theorycrafting made for below average players, you’d better stop making a jaster of yourself, bc when you say smth like
“For Prot paladin you need to press a button and it can work or it can not work it all depends on how you as the player needs to move but the spec is Balanced around it having a 100% uptime”
playing a spec that is considered the easiest and most fool-protective, I have a feeling there is smth rly wrong with you. If you have problems keeping a 12 sec buff, I wonder how do you manage to keep SotR uptime, let alone planning CDs ahead.
The only thing I dislike currently is having both WoG and SoTR on holy power, it really doesn’t make for fun game play.
If I recall they started looking into it on the PTR just before it went live, but ran out of time and just reverted it (the attempt was worse).
If I had my way I would remove the Holy Power from SoTR completely and go back to it just being on cooldown. Give us both of Rets offensive spenders instead, and go back to more of a BFA iteration where using them lowers SoTR’s cooldown (double on a Crit).
They can then balance our holy power generation, without it nuking our active mitigation… which is really creating all these issues with the WoG spamming in both PvE and PvP we have right now!
Runnig high keys +15 feels really bad, on one had you have to use a lot of WoG to try to help with healing so no SoTR there, and if you use SoTR you end up dead because it doesn’t give us much defence, i runned a 15 last week and it was hell, having to use consecration to help with defences but having to run away after so i don’t die instantly and still you end up dying, because our armour is a joke, and our defences couldown takes to long, it’s always a choice of putting an extra horse to run or keep yourself protected, or have a bigger consecrated ground or heal more, ridiculous choices in my view, atm we are very week when it comes to high end keys, but as blizz prefers some tanks to others we have to wait maybe another year for them to fix the mess they created!
otherwise use ardent defender / kings as frequently as you can (almost on cooldown).