PTR Feedback - DH


#1

Hej,

I wanted to feedback on the changes in 8.2 PTR

Firstly I really like the new system implemented, the concern is that some of the traits are to good for some classes and not to good for others, overall though it seems good.

The feedback I wanted to really give is that of tanking balance.

I am really glad to see that Blue has identified a tanking inbalance and noticed that Druids and DH need some extra help. The proof is in the pudding and its hard to escape data such as raider io

I wanted to comment on the DH changes. (FYI I play m+ and play Brewmaster, Prot Warrior (had no choice) Blood DK, and DH) - Approximatly 2.1k. I have good knowledge of these 4 specs. - I have been playing in PTR but we have the same struggles. FORT Trash destroys us and we can only do m+ on tyrannical weeks.

I have played PTR but we will still not be great.

It is nice to see that the notice point of DH weakness is that when Demon Spike is down we are incredibly vulnerable. Literally being one shot as tank.

The thing I would like to point out is that even when you have demon spikes up we are not in place of comfort, we need to play hard to use other CDS such as Fiery Brand and Meta and manage our self healing!, however both of these spells are not actually that great. Single Target tanking in M+ seems fine. as is relatively short and not much 1 shots you like in raid.

The place in where we see big tank issues is on the Fortified setting and extreme big pulls on none fort, example 3 packs in Freehold (14 adds)

As with anyone its hard to give feedback on changes that need to be made, fearing that if you ever have a good suggestion it wouldn’t be implemented due to a specific request.

However I would like to suggest some small changes with big impact.

Demon Spikes being an aura rather than charges. Azerite traits would be effected such as [Rigid Carapace] - small change here would be that it cycles through instead every 10 seconds.

Demon spikes being an aura would not make it OP, I am not suggesting this to make for easy rotational gameplay, even when active it is not exceptional strong like shield block from warriors.

With this change you could follow on with a small change to Fiery Brand so it acts the same as Demoralizing roar from the warrior, however primary targets takes the 40% and everything else within a radius takes 20%. This would mean single target tanking would not be effected but would remove the stress on big aoe pulls.

I also feel that (especially with the new Neck traits) that meta could do with a small adjustment. if having demon spikes with 100% uptime then you can remove the bonus from armor from Meta. it would be nice to see Meta having a dps increase also. So maybe something like 100% increase health pool and 25% increased damage and healing.

I really don’t want to go into 8.2 playing warrior, I really want to play DH tank.

When we talk about Viable, most is talking about end game content. It really is impossible to do keys (as I tried today) on something with fortified. I got smashed in KR in the 1st room (19 key). I don’t have enough globals to save myself and my health pool drops to quick to ever cast soul bomb . You are rushing to get 5 souls out to heal the past 40% damage, but you also need to do other stuff to, to the point where you cant even use fiery brand because there is no global free.

There are some QOL changes that would really help, fracture giving 5 souls instead of 3. Orbs spawning correctly etc.

There is a lot of noise in the tanking community because we really want to play a variety of classes, the Meta tank is always to strong vs others and if we want to push past 20 keys its very difficult to do so. I would like us to shift away from Meta meaning how much you can tank rather than what utility and comp fits well together. All tanks should be able to take the same damaging intake but skill separates from how to mitigate it and also the class handles it differently

wouldn’t it be amazing to see in MDI tanks been swapped out by teams based on dungeons, meaning different strengths being used. nothing to do with survivability.

It was great to see that Warr came in to the lime light, this was made to strong but the great thing is it can always be changed - don’t be scared to make similar decisions with other tanks!

there are 1000s of threads with suggestions on how to improve DH. Lots of good input. Please put some extra energy into tanks.

Thanks anyways, I look forward to 8.2 with a prayer that I am ‘viable’ as a DH tank!

P.S Just think of the pulls in MDI such as the whole 1st room in KR on a 19! and think how long a DH tank would last!


#2

Its really starting to become exciting to see, genuinely!

Meta

  • Health bonus 50% (from 30%)

  • Now causes Shear to generate 20 additional Pain and 1 additional [![]Lesser Soul Fragmentfragment) (was: generates 7 Pain per second).

I have to ask though, where will the 5th soul fragment come from without over capping ? hard to get 5! (sould barrier/soul bomb)

Please remember that Meta needs to be able to be used to recharge demon spikes in the current game play! issue follows after using meta back into demon spikes! then what? with no way of reducing Meta like last stand for Warr how are we to do?

I really like the shear change but I think you need to go all the way and make it 5 souls when using Fracture to go in line with soul bomb.

I like what you are doing though, making an alternative for fracture to give potential feed the demon talent instead. But please considering allowing us to stack more souls if going in 2s but 5 is max spender can only ever waste. and or increase soul barrier and soul bomb to consume 6 souls. (this would buff them 20%)

maybe remove fracture and give a talent choice for 1 extra charge of demon spikes? high skill players would take feed the demon and get more out of it. the talent choice doesn’t really line up. fracture being the odd one out. maybe swap soul barrier and fracture around? there are so many choices.

really glad to see some love for the DH, great job! please keep the changes coming!

What I can say what we like to have in talents for fun and good game play

Soul Bomb
Flame Crash
Abyssal Strike
Sigil of Chains

it is worth considering make one baseline so you can open up something like Fel Devistation (needs massive buff on healing! current healing but per target hit) or feed the demon (change 0.7). I think that if we can some how get feed the demon into our talent choice and generate more souls we will be fixed. and more Meta buff so be able to be the only CD up on big pulls, currently not


#3

Now causes Shear to generate 20 additional Pain and 1 additional Lesser Soul Fragment (was: generates 7 Pain per second).

Ah I misread this!!!

I thought there was a change to Shear outside of Meta. Meaning we could drop fracture and take Feed the demon. Sad to see its just in Meta.!!! That would have been the fix we needed.

Feed the demon is so needed but you cant drop Fracture!!

Feed the demon should also reduce Meta. Please make the Sheer change general rather than being attached to Meta!

Really disappointed when testing this, that was not the change! damn!


#4

Using Shear won’t give us as much Pain as Fracture so we would overcap our souls. I think slight buff to Shear in terms of Pain generation is also needed. I think Shear should generate 1/2 of Pain needed for Spirit Bomb (Soul Cleave.


#5

The change in Meta also included shear pain increase


#6

Pain gen hasn’t been a problem in bfa at all?!


#7

actually testing different builds I have run into a pain issue.
For example running gluttony rather than Sbomb and using soul cleave.

However SBomb is the most fun and interactive play style.

It really is coming down to having feed the demon talent in our pool and not losing any other talents. there are 2 we could but would suck! ;Abyssal Strike, Fallout.

I am trying to be unbiased in looking into the CDs we have.

Demon Spike is to strong at low level (15 keys less) 19 keys+ you still get hurt a lot! I am not sure if it would be good to have 100% uptime on DS but having the strength nerfed.

I feel that we need to have it 100% though and we should use others CDs on top for big scary pulls such as Meta, Meta I like the change with the increase HP. I would say add another 20% on and make it do a lot of leech as with the talent maybe. Fiery Brand could be good to be a aoe defensive if nerfing DS.

Blizz just want number changes as no big redesign but it is hard to give suggestion as defensively it needs a little redesign.

The only number change I could think of is making the base of sheer the same as fracture just to open the feed the demon. OR swap some talents around
Feed the demon replacing either Razor Spikes or Abyss strike