Pvpers, this is it

I want so much to go back to the pvp gearing system we had from TBC all the way through to WoD. God I miss those days, all my pvp mates quit due all the pve us pvpers have been forced to do to gear up. It makes me sad. I only stay because it feels like wow is routine for me, nothing more.

It’s odd that you have 10 times as many upvotes as the US post you’re supporting.

Here’s a link to the US post, for those who would throw him a like:

(You can like US posts even if you can’t post yourself.)

I’m not sure every raid has every stat combination for every item slot either.

If Blizzard were to provide every stat combination for every piece of gear, then that PvP vendor would need around 75 items on offer, and that’s before being extra picky and also offering items with different stat weights, i.e lots of crit and little haste, and lots of haste and little crit.

Don’t be unreasonable now. BiS is the best you’re presented with, not the best you can imagine in theory.
I mean, what’s next. Should we eventually sit here and cry because the boots with 250 crit and 250 haste aren’t optimized and what we really want is boots with 251 crit and 249 haste! And so now we’re being forced to do PvE! Reeeeeee!!

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I’m a pve player and i wouldn’t care that a pvp only player is stronger than i am in battlegrounds, arena, when i only do that content casually few times a week.

Pve gear should give players an advantage in pve, which it already does, and pvp gear should give players an advantage in pvp which is not the case at all. Right now it’s “do mythic raids or prepare to suck in pvp compared to others who do”. Unless they add pvp only stats to pvp gear, it will never change which is stupid.

Doesn’t have to be. It has to be good for pvp players.

Nonsense. People who put the most effort into one kind of content should be rewarded the most for doing so, not those who do it twice a month because they are bored of other content for 10 minutes.

I hated how i had to do bg’s for blood of the enemy, and that’s still nothing compared to pvp players who are forced to do pve in order to be viable in pvp.

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Do you remember when a guy with 2k elite gear was pwning you in duels/bgs/arenas when you had equiped only pve gear? Pepperidge farm remembers.
I was ok with that system. I had pve gear, i was taking a lot of dmg in pvp, dealing negative dmg to players. The same way if you had equiped pvp gear in pve, you were dealing negative dmg to mobs. I liked that.

I’m not going to lie, at fist I though that the removal of pvp gear is a great idea. I was going to gear up from doing both types of content, yey. Wrong! PvP gearing is underwhelming compared to pve.
And I though that I was going to have only one set of equipment and that will save space in bags. Wrong aswell! Most of the classes(if not all of them) need different stats in pve and pvp, so they are going to end up with multiple sets anyway.

And there is a large amount of people that do pvp. I had chars for pvp only back in the day. I didn’t run a single raid with those chars, I geared only from bgs and arena and I was happy. Now I can’t do that…

Of course the numbers look good now for pve content, because the pvpers do M+ to get geared, lel. Ion said they didin’t consider reintroducing pvp stats for the moment, I don’t know why.
Let’s hope that is going to change if we give enough feedback and we show them that we truly want that.

And one last thing, I don’t know why people that play only or primarily pve content come to this topic to say we don’t need pvp gear and stats. Man, you don’t even play that type of content, what do you care? Let the playerbase of that content decide!

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  1. Remove this absurd scaling. People who have better gear ( because they spent time farming it) should be able to crush low geared players that maybe hit max level yesterday. I find it laughable that my crit, hate, mastery, vers need to be gutted by 50% just because some random on the enemy team has blue questing gear, in order to make us equal.
  2. People mentioned this but here it is again - bring back Resilience. It actually made sense for there to be a pvp-specific stat.
  3. Bring back sets and set bonuses. Have unique pvp set bonuses.
  4. PvP currency and PvP vendor. High-end PvP gear purchasable with said currency but locked behind arena rating requirements.

That’s how I think it should be done.

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Do you even do pvp? Have you ever seen the numerous threads about item level requirement on bgs?
You can oneshot low geared players, because scaling doesn’t work that way.

Like I said above, for my sanity not arguing with white knights that don’t have proper arguments.
I don’t want to get banned just from answering to that one, which I would if I said what I wanted.
If pvers can have bis gear so should we, else it’s useless. Not answering any more coming from you sorry.

To resolve this just have PVP gear give bonuses that are useful in PVP, taking advantage of things like stuns, slows, roots, etc.
That way PVP gear has an advantage over PVE gear even if it’s lower in ilvl, and PVP gear since it’s naturally lower than PVE gear won’t be needed to be farmed for PVE.

For example, make these PVP related bonuses activate as sets, so that you can’t just replace a piece with one from PVE without losing a bonus.
To note that the examples below have rough numbers that can be better balanced against their PVE counterparts so that they are worth more if needed.

Main pieces: Head, Shoulders, Chest, Gloves, Pants):

  • 2 pieces gives --> +10% damage on stunned targets
  • 4 Piece gives --> +10% more critical strike chance against slowed targets,
  • 5 piece gives --> -5% overall less damage taken.

And then we have offpieces like:

  • bracers and belt --> 2 piece bonus of -10% crowd control duration
  • boots --> +10% movement speed inside arenas, battlegrounds and in the outside world (because everyone loves movement speed and it has a distinct advantage anywhere)
  • back --> Inspired by the Wrathion cloak, make it give 4 seconds of CC immunity when used(can’t be used while stunned), with a 3 minute cooldown. This would make arenas and PVP in general more strategic depending on when you use it.
  • rings --> 2 piece bonus of +5% damage and healing against player targets and pets
  • trinkets (one proc and one on-use only) --> 2 piece bonus generates a shield every 1 minute equal to 10% of your HP, if the shield is broken root the one who broke it (or it’s master if it’s a pet) in place for 3 seconds

Damage and tank weapons and shields

  • 2hander weapons(staves included) - any target you stunned or incapacitated makes your next attack on them a guaranteed critical strike(auto attacks excluded) - the Debilitated debuff lasts 10 seconds and can only occur once per 30 seconds per target.
  • 1 handed weapons or shields and offhands - any target you attack while under a slow or stun effect takes 5% (per weapon or shield worn) more critical strike damage from you. - the Waylay debuff on the target lasts 5 seconds
  • Guns, bow’s and xbow’s - you have a 10% chance to parry melee attacks from the front with your weapon and also partially deflect spells, take -15% less damage from spells which would take more than 15% of your hp. - Weapon Versatility buff on the user
    Healing Weapons
  • 1handed weapons and shields - any friendly target under a form of crowd control take 5%(per weapon or shield worn) more healing from you. - Crucial effort buff on the user

Legendary items

  • any Legendary item used in PVP will replace and provide their PVP fixed counterpart item slot buff as well, as to not break the bonuses.

These are just bonuses that i came up in the course of an hour or so, so I’m sure Blizzard can do much better in providing more interesting and interactive ones, as well as balance them accordingly.

But using the premise for bonus as stated above can give an edge where it is due to resolve the issue at hand.

I’m no expert but holy cow this seems absurdly strong. Don’t really think PvP needs more CC or more burst on CC’ed targets…

PvP gear just needs to be numerically better, these sets effects just go way beyond that.

Even something as dumb as “+300 crit score in a PvP environment” would be enough to make PvP gear more relevant than PvE, all of these set bonuses seems overkill and a serious balance concern in some cases.

This comes down due to ilvl on PVP gear being lower than PVE gear generally to over-set the extra damage because of the bonuses.

But for example a PVP geared DH will do:

Offensive benefits
+10% dmg on stunned targets
+10% critical strike chance against slowed targets
+10% critical strike damage to slow or stunned targets (both weapons added)
+5% damage and healing

Defensive benefits
+5% less damage taken
-10% crowd control duration
+4 seconds CC immunity activated benefit once every 3 minutes
+10% hp shield every minute + root on the one who broke it

Miscellaneous
+10% movement speed

But the ilvl of PVP gear is lower than PVE gear naturally.
Let’s say 110ilvl versus 110ilvl.
10ilvl points can be worth more than 20% extra damage

And you result in:
PVE target vs PVP target = let’s say 120% damage versus 100% damage + the above offensive benefits which equal about the same, lower or more depending on circumstances.
Now you add in the defensive benefits listed above, you’ll get lower damage from a PVE target, effectively cancelling his ilvl advantage.
PVP versus PVP target is the same, if they are equally geared.

This ends up as:
PVE gear is higher ilvl but less effective in PVP
PVE gear is superior to PVP gear in PVE due to the PVP gear mostly having bonuses that are only active against targets in PVP situations.
PVP gear is superior to PVE gear in PVP.

PVE players don’t need to farm PVP gear due to it being lower ilvl and the bonuses about useless in PVE.
PVP players don’t need to farm PVE gear due to PVP gear having the best PVP benefits.

Side activity is some pet battles,not PVP. I haven’t seen pet battle live tournaments, but I seen PVP ones.

I understand the goal here but the sheer scale of the bonuses worry me tbh. I’m aware that you made the numbers up and that it’s but a suggestion but fundamentally I don’t think some of them would be healthy for the game.

For instance the “bonus dmg against Cc’ed target” and “guaranteed crit after a hard CC” are a major concern. That’s already a pain point in Arenas afaik, does it really need to be further supported by these bonuses ?

Same for the dmg on slowed target to a lesser extent as not all specs have a slow and missing on a 10% dmg buff that other specs can just get from their rotation would be a balance issue imo.

Benthic “+3% crit dmg” or dmg procs made the LFR pieces SIM higher than some mythic gear, and the upgraded ones were the absolute BIS for the patch. If they are so impacting, do we really need to add these CC related dmg buffs to these sets ?

Good old “+5% dmg”, +5% crit DMG", “interrupting a spell generate X resource” ect would be impactful without being a major concern imo.

Something like "steals 5~10% of the heals the target receive would also be very strong yet wouldn’t cause the balance problems that these CC related traits have

In a worst case scenario you could eat a single CC and receive a guaranteed crit, +20% dmg (slow + CC) chaos bolt and with whatever buff a destro lock could get in your face. That’s gotta sting. Same with retri (and their already guaranteed crit with wings), fire mage or any spec with decent burst.

Of course that’s PvP and there should be ways to play around that but still, +20% dmg and guaranteed crit would just make burst comp much more powerful. And I don’t think that’s what rated PvP need right now but y’all are the experts, not me.

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Well you see, i already addressed that concern, the PVP gear would be a lower ilvl than PVE gear, so it means that the absolute maximum PVP gear (for a certain patch) is always going to have less damage anyway naturally.

That +3% crit damage was bis in PVE not PVP as far as i knew.
The bonuses still add up to less than 20% overall damage versus what the PVE gear ilvl would bring about.

And i wouldn’t worry too much about auto-crit and the like, since it would be one every stun for 2h users for example, as ret i have Hammer of Justice every 1 minute, can be lowered if i keep using finishers to about 40 seconds or so, probably less in PVP. 2 extra crits per minute at most aren’t exactly stellar and can be accounted by rng anyway.

Anyway you look at it, we’re just arguing some numbers here, idk how relevant that is.

For the last concern, the number of bonuses are to deny having any PVE gear pieces in the PVP set, else you’d lose a bonus.
And frankly more bonuses on PVP gear, would make the PVP gear mandatory in PVP, which is the whole point here.

Maybe I wasn’t clear in my previous post : I understand that and most of the perks are fine. I just commented on a selected few ones which imo were problematic.

I used benthic as an example of how impactful a small buff like +3% crit dmg could be : if LFR ilvl can sim higher than some mythic pieces with but that +3%, no matter how low pvp Ilvl is you shouldn’t need too many dps perks to make up for it.

It’s just that the CC related perks support a gameplay that as far as i know has been an issue in PVP for a while. These perks could just be turned on while in a PVP setting like Benthic was only available in the AEP raid, they do not necessarily need to rely on CCs to be pvp exclusive bonuses.

It could be 3, 5 10 or 20%, it still favour a gameplay that i’ve seen many posters complain about and which doesn’t really help with pvp balance. Are these CC perks really required ?

Same for PVE so nothing special. Asking for items with bis stats is kinda silly. This is rpg game not competttive esport and there should be suboptimal gear for rpg aspect.

The main line i wasn’t trying to cross too much, would be to make PVP bonuses active only in PVP.

The different effects and abilities doing different damage or working differently from PVE to PVP kinda make the game too separated and leaves a bad taste. (they also don’t include this in the tooltips they use for skills, like Execution Sentence or Wake of Ashes 8.1 nerfs to damage against PVP targets only)

So imo what needs to be done is tack these under skills that apply to PVP situations. You may think that a stunned target taking more damage is bad, but what is the alternative? Overall damage being higher? Not being able to out-heal the damage under normal conditions would feel bad.

I’m not sure overall damage is the answer as much as creating opportunities for burst.
Well just take this as my opinion.

Blizzard can create different bonuses to apply in different situations.
But they have to actually start doing some changes to resolve the gearing problem that exists now.

Well it would solve a lot of issues but fair enough.

If it’s clearly written in the item description it shouldn’t be too bad imo, not unlike PvP talents. I do share your opinion on abilities behaving differently in pve and PvP tho, as well as the ilvl scaling which mess with your perception but the underlying issue there is how stats behaved in BFA. The stamina and player power increase over the course of the xpack was staggering and I would argue that the scaling was required as a band aid fix to the mess that BFA introduced

Perhaps tie these bonuses to interupts ? Beside locks it should be more widespread and further incentify you to play along, opening windows of opportunities whenever you manage to interrupt a spell.

Because if the buff is supposed to balance the lower ilvl with additional burst on the target, this would mean that any spec which lacks burst would not really benefit from these sets and perhaps be better off with PVE gear.

At least that’s how it looks like for Affli and havoc as they don’t really have a lot of snares or burst if we use your suggestion as a basis. (Well this may have changed with SL class changes tho, this worry may be completely unfounded)

Well perhaps you’re right. The easiest solution would be random procs with increased PpM in PvP but I doubt anyone actually wants that.

Agree.
Pvp set bonus are good ON TOP of a pvp Stat.
A 4 set that slightly increases damage is fine, gloves with a bonus to a spell like + 2 seconds for fear/poly etc etc etc is fine.
But we shouldn’t go overboard.
The main objective with pvp Stat is for pvp gear to be better than Pve gear but it should never go above a 10% difference.
Pve gear should bring something.
A trade off is always fun and allows you to further customize your char.
If you select a Pve item instead of a pvp you should have a risk VS reward in place.
Like resilience did back in the day.

Also, I need to reiterate on this:
without a pvp Stat all gear needs to have all combinations of secondary stats, with a pvp Stat the above ain’t a problem.

Edit:

Really?
So I guess me targeting cut of death 465 on my warrior Alt was a dream.
I guess me targeting haste versa pieces on my sp, lock and haste mastery on lock was a dream.
In Pve you can target specific items by doing the same m+ or just bonus rolling specific dungeons/bosses.
Are we talking about another game?
Cause targeting items has been a thing since vanilla…
Edit 2:
Ok don’t add a pvp Stat and don’t make all combinations of secondaries BUT don’t let all classes get bis stats from dungeons and raids alone.
In order to get bis Pve stats for any class you need 5 (only 5) pvp items.
This is a mmorpg after all.
10/10 thinking.

Edit:
Update:

Like i said, the vendors are not enough.

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