If you make PvE gear as good as PvP gear is in PvP, how do you maintain the viability of gearing up via BGs? Should random BGs just start handing out mythic raid tier?
The idea that PvE gear should be one and the same with PvP gear is not conducive to the idea that BGs have any place in the gearing process, because they’ll get inundated with people decked out in higher-end PvE gear, which basically raises the bar for reasonable entry in BGs beyond what they can provide as gear upgrades.
totally agree pvp stats should come back, otherwise we are gonna have another BFA sh*tshow
wod got it so right (sans ashran farming for accolade), idk how they screwed up so bad.
random bgs atm are so unfun because there’s so many players in random crap gear and if they don’t want to pve for gear, they have legit no chance.
this isn’t fun for anybody, i don’t understand why they keep forcing people to do content they don’t enjoy.
https://img.epicnpc.com/image_cache/89/89193-306beda3f2d87c91fce4307745dc9c98-1546749602-server.jpg
bring this back plz </3
According to dev interviews & various SL news (Feel free to prove me wrong, may misremember some things) :
honor will be an uncapped currency and obtained through every PvP activities (Don’t yet know how War Mode rewards will work tho, most likely Honor unlike the conquest rewards from BFA). I don’t remember anything being said about honor levels for cosmetic rewards tho, i guess it’ll remain as a side reward on top of the honor currency.
Conquest is once again a currency and should only come from rated PvP. “Should” because they mentioned rated PvP but didn’t precise if it was the only source.
Conquest can be used to purchase gear from a PVP Vendor AND upgrade PvP items with a similar interface than Benthic gear in BFA.
Most of the checklist is already there, i guess the most pressing issue is the unbalance between PvP and PvE gear sources. As well as unique items and trinkets but that’s a balance issue.
M+ will be limited to 1 drop per run, the weekly chest being greatly improved (pick one item among ~6 or an “universally useful option” ie currency imo).
Raid gear being so far not impacted (still Personal loot, coins & maybe a lowered drop rate from the ~30% of bfa iirc)
Note to those unaware of it : No gear system in SL : “Gear is gear”. At most you’ll have to care about stats and gem sockets (unconfirmed so far iirc), but no corruption, TF or any similar system.
PvP Stats may solve the issue altho Ion recently claimed that none were planned for SL. They already changed their mind based on feedback (see below some examples) so try your best.
They seemed to push for accessibility so this will be harder than let’s say Timed torments in Torghast but good luck with that.
Do we agree that this is much better than the previous thread ?
If you want to be heard beyond the EU forums i’d suggest a Reddit thread, if it gets enough attention it may reach Blizzard more easily than an EU thread.
Some did, and pretty quickly tbh during the alpha such as blue eyes Belves, covenants abilities, get rid of the key requirement for Torghast or the timed torments. More popular issues i guess…
It’s an afterthought. The Blizzard devs flat out said this back in the day.
I also said why I think that way, there are more PVE players that participate in PVP casually than PVP players. To a significant degree.
WoW is not a PVP game, it is not advertised as such, the community isn’t built around it being such, it’s side content.
Which it is. You honestly believe PVP is as important in Blizzards eyes as quests, dungeons, raids, and PVE focused systems?
No PVP stat doesn’t equate to PVE gear being BIS. They could balance the gear without this.
That would impact the majority of the player base.
It’s precisely why it doesn’t work that way around.
I’m not really sure where this point is coming from.
BG’s are equivalent to dungeons, maybe LFR.
Then the equivalent would be high end PVP, not random battlegrounds.
yes, the main problem is the pvp stat.
There is no point having pvp gear if the following is true:
pvp entry gear is below ANY content you do in pve (mythic raiding included)
Upgrades for said pvp gear are gated behind rating requirements (casual player base for pvp, once again forgotten)
Vendor doesn’t have every form of combination between secondary stats (which is true in BFA by the way)
And let’s imagine pvp gear is as fast and as good as mythic raiding gear, then it wouldn’t be fair for the pvers who don’t enjoy pvp.
A pvp only stat fixes all of these issues.
But the opposition encountered in BGs is not “LFR”.
So let’s restrict access to BGs from people who are too highly geared then in order to maintain it’s place as a viable step in gear progression.
Then you weren’t around during tbc and when pvp gear was the best way, for most classes, to get raid entry gear.
People complained, a lot.
Thank you. Preach!
Then you do higher rated PVP content to acquire better gear?
Since when was the purpose of a BG supposed to be a “step on the gear ladder”?
BG’s are for casual, unorganized PVP because you find it fun.
What?
That backs up what I said. Thank you for providing me with a perfect example of what I am talking about.
Since the honor system was implemented, in vanilla, and then reformed, in TBC. That’s been it’s purpose since always, and a sizeable chunk of people have basically made BGs their main form of content, and now they have days and weeks long grind as a prerequisite before gaining reasonable chances in playing them.
Resilience and otherwise PvP-specific gear was never an unreasonable barrier to entry for PvE-geared people, and the high-end PvE-gear they were decked out in was a much better launching platform for their viability in BGs than just going in with leveling gear was, so it’s not like they had to completely start from scratch either.
Wasn’t PVP also the best way to get weapons early in an xpack until Mop ? Fairly sure I heard about raiders feeling “forced” to PvP and get their weapon early on back in 5.0 or previous xpacks.
May be a minority but i feel like casuals got more than they deserved in BFA.
Took a while but getting heroic quality gear from unranked BGs and WPVP because i claimed my weekly chest for three months in a row didn’t felt right imo. Normal raiding was already made irrelevant, and even heroic raids felt useless compared to a few open world invasions every week e.e
Anyone relying on the weekly chest suffered, but the weekly conquest bar was pretty generous compared to the actual investment imo. At least i feel like I didn’t deserve it.
But also makes it harder to PvP, which is an issue for Blizzard.
I have no actual way to prove it but
feels about right. The fact that many PvP’ers were disguested by BFA did play a role in this tho
This definitely is a solution, but i wonder if Blizz would take it as it would alienate these “casual PvP’ers”.
That’s why i felt that merging the weekly chests would be a good idea (IF it indeed happens, wouldn’t be the first time that a Blizzcon information doesn’t make it to the live game) as it would negate part of the incentives to do one content to play the other.
If we go back to my previous speculations, should the PVP Progression be about upgrading gladiator gear with conquest up to ilvl cap AND the weekly chest be shared between m+ and PVP, wouldn’t it solve most of the unbalance issues we had in BFA ?
M+ would at most help you somewhat gear faster (but still be capped at heroic quality gear without the chest), PvP would provide BIS gear without any form of RNG and potentially reach higher ilvl than m+.
M+ chest unable to affect PVP gear, vendors providing the right gear unlike m+ random drops, and perhaps even BIS PVP conduits.
If we forget about PVE trinkets or unbalanced items, what would be the issues for a PVP Player with such setting ? Beside perhaps the first few weeks of a patch.
There is a difference between BG’s rewarding gear for time invested and those gear rewards being the sole purpose of BG’s.
That has nothing to do with the lack of a PVP stat, that is an entirely different subject.
But if anything PVP stats would make the prerequisites even more abundant, as now the gear you’ve earned via dungeons and WQ’s which is much quicker to farm are now worse in BG’s.
It is a barrier, regardless of how large it is.
Apply it the other way, people who are now fully geared in PVP gear, are we now supposed to be biased and make PVP gear just as good as equal item level “PVE” gear?
Do we now ask PVP people who are in normal equivalent item level gear to go back to dungeons and LFR? It would be unfair for PVE to suck in PVP but for PVP to be perfectly fine in PVE.
450 gear should be just as good as any other piece of 450 gear. 460 PVE gear shouldn’t be on par with 440 PVP gear. Nor should 460 PVP gear be equal to 440 PVE gear.
If we have learned anything from Legion and BFA it is that players do not like swapping down to low item level pieces for stats.
It sucked in Legion with the secondary stat weights. It sucked in BFA with corruption and Azerite traits.
It sucked back in MoP when I would have to switch out all my new cool PVE gear with my boring PVP set that was lower item level.
It’s not fun for players who enjoy the game outside of PVP, which is the vast majority of the player base.
pvping with pve items is so much more fun different trinkets thorough the entire expansion rather than the same click-when-bursting trinket and a proc one/ w/e forever… I don’t get people lmfao
This is a big drive for me against “PVP gear” and a good point.
PVE trinkets are way more creative.
I think people have forgotten the feeling of getting a new weapon or trinket from a raid boss and going into a BG to test it out.
There shouldn’t be a PvP stat. Resi / PvP power was implemented to fix a fundamental design mistake: the game was way too oneshotty, so Resill was implemented. As for PvP Power, it was no better than Legion’s templates - everyone ran around in the same gear. We already have seperate PvP balancing, Blizz should continue doing that.
People should be able to gear up by doing PvP or PvE, but BiS should be a mix of both, for both PvE and PvP. Just like it always was.
Edit: Fun Fact: the BiS gear for PvE this patch is strictly all PvP gear (excluding trinkets, mechagon rings and some azerite pieces in some cases), simply because they have a better stat weight. Stat% corruptions makes those items super broken, as you gain more secondary stats.
But simultaneously it is a much more socially accepted starting point for a person to go into BGs with that gear, and if you have a degree of scaling towards a more reasonable starting point to otherwise inadequate gear, you’ll p much solve the issue with that.
Or considerably up the ilevel of BG rewards, either way. You’ll encourage premades with dedicated PvPers, but BGs should have a place in the gearing process, which they currently do not. When that incentive was removed from BGs, the participation plummeted.
I agree with this, but PVP stats are not the answer.
PVP vendors for regular gear is a perfect implementation, and correct me if I am wrong but that is exactly what is happening i SL.
It is healthier for the game for a player to decide if they want to acquire their 430 ilvl gear from BG’s or Dungeons.
Then their 450 gear from LFR or low level Arenas / Skirmishes / RBGs.
PVP stats break this. You’ll either have to do both or pick one path to go down, hindering yourself whenever you want to play the other side.
PVP stats make BGs a mandatory step.
this is BS. they do it because they’re forced to. Check holinka twiter from 2014 where he says that PVP queues are as high as PVE queues.
Make a part of the game (in this case PVP) be good and fair and people will play it.
PVP is NOT a niche. is NOT a mini game. it has been a BIG part of the game since release.
stop trying to justify bad design decisions (and the consequence of those decisions making players play less PVP) with stuff like “well players dont play it anyway”, when its clear that they dont play it because its unbalanced and has an unfair progression relative with PVE which makes PVE a better source for gear.
First of all that statement even if true to this day does not prove you right or me wrong. I am saying PVP only players are a minority, not that PVP itself is minority content that is unplayed.
But why would I use a comment that is 6 years outdated? Times have changed, drastically.
You’re only fooling yourself by telling yourself otherwise.
Do a random sample on the forums, guaranteed most people are not PVP only. I’d hedge my bets that most people rarely even PVP.
That’ not what I said.