Randoms vs Premades - Lets have an adult discussion

PVP Battlegrounds
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Hi all.

First of I would like to say as in the title I’m here to have a proper discussion about the whole issue with people going into premade groups for RBG.

Firstly I would like to counter the argument a lot of people like to put forward of “Just communicate with your team and work together” - To everyone who says this I’m sorry but that just doesn’t work 99% of the time. From a simple maths view on the matter it might take you 10-15 seconds to type out instructions to your team meanwhile the premade could of taken 3-4 seconds to say the same thing. That then leads onto your team having to see your message as well as read it before being able to follow whereas the second something is said on voice comms it’s understood and can be acted upon.

Secondly I would then like to say that joining a BG as a premade team does go against Blizzard’s In game code of conduct. “engaging in any activity that grants an unfair advantage is considered cheating.” I would say being in a premade group that are no doubt on comms as well vs random players would tick that box.

Finally I would like to make the point that doing this is just against the spirit of the game. Having joined a BG against these premade teams and talked to a lot of people who have as well it ruins the fun not to mention if you leave you then get punished.

Please feel free to answer as I would like to see what people think about the matter rather then the normal “omg ban the russians” ect ect

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Blizzard allow people to join as a 5. Maybe they should reduce that to 3. The 6-10+ people all from the same server / guild isn’t something that should be happening, and agreed is against ToS.

I don’t think it makes sense for people to be disallowed playing with each other in casual content, which is what random BGs are. Rated is a significant jump up from that in terms of both what’s asked of you, and the time commitment to playing it (Not to mention the entire bracket is dead at the moment). It’s also nice to be able to play with people of all performance levels, something that’s not really possible if you “Forced” all people who want to play with their friends into rated.

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I understand your point. How about a system where I think I saw it mentioned in another post. In Overwatch, if you sign up as a premade you are most of the time then pitted vs players who are also in a premade group. This should then hopefully cancel out the randoms vs premade.

I do agree that people should be allowed to play with their friends I would hate to create a game where you can’t do that.

Also just from memory I do recall having fun in a BG when you do have a mix skilled group you can go from crushing a poor new pvper to having an epic 10 minute duel with another player. That is awesome but that just doesn’t happen when you are vs a 10 man premade

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10 mans require clever use of game mechanics to create, I think it should be harder if not impossible to do that.

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From what I understand it’s as simple as getting two, 5 man groups and signing up for the same BG if your queue’s pop at exactly the same time you know you are together. It might take time but I think that is how it’s done. I know at one point there was an addon people were using to do this, I think this addon was deleted though as it was a clear rule breaker.

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Yeah it’s not difficult. But since there was a time when you could queue more than 5, and now you can’t, I’d make the assumption bliz don’t want people to.

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You can all just join up in wows voice chat you know… Most premades are just that. Random group, but with voice.

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Are people still crying about this? I’m not going to waste my time joining a group with a bunch of sheeps that don’t even know how to land any sort of cc on the enemy team.

Premades are here to stay buddy and do you really think Blizzard cares about this minor issue? Pvp is on its last legs lol

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I believe you’re wrong regarding audio communication. The premades most often do not use audio.

If you see an enemy team totally stomp yours, it’s because of skill&experience. It’s the several more skilled people gathered together - that’s what premades look like, but the same can be with people that are placed randomly together.

There is no need even for written communication when everyone knows how to play their class and knows how to play the bg map, where to go, when to do what.

About the technical part:

I understand the point against bypassing the 5 man limit by queuing and ending up in the same bg. However I must ask the question (not exactly directed at you, but to ask it in general):
Blizzard created Communities. There are also pvp-bg communities. Blizzard encourages community spirit and community play.
What stops these communities to queue as 5 mans? If there are like 60 people in there and all queue in 5 man groups, wouldn’t there be a very high chance to end up in the same bg?

Would accidental ending up in a same bg be counted as punishable offense? How do we tell which is accidental and which is not? Imagine we are 7 5-man groups and each group gets a queue pop for the same bg, and decides to enter, so we are breaking TOS this way?

Short answer: no. It’s the system that puts the groups in bgs. If the groups were somehow entering themselves manually, lets say used commands like “queue wsg; enter wsg” then it would be exploit.

If groups are limited to 3-man, it would not make any difference. The system works this way. Hell, I used to end up with a same person several times in a bg when I queued solo.

Lastly about the technical part: since WoW population and pvp population is much less than before, the chance to end up in the same bg is a lot higher, because there are less instances being generated due to lesser amount of queuers.

What you guys might prefer as a solution is “hidden mmr” in random bgs. This will put more skilled players against each other, no matter if premade or just skilled randoms, and will leave less skilled just-fun-seeking players play amongst similar players.

I personally would be for this, doesn’t matter if queues will become long. I don’t mind.

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Remove premades entirely.

if you want to group up and coordinate with people then you should be doing rated BGs, so you can have a fair fight against another group of coordinated premades.

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They make rated bgs to gear up etc. Its not fun play like random bgs. Rated bgs are not more different than mythic keys.

Compare it with something nicely pls.

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Your idea of ‘‘fun’’ seems to be a little skewed.

if you enjoy stomping on randoms that have next to no coordination and more often than not, a horde of undergeared, recently maxed characters, then you’ve got some issues.

It’s not fun to be stomped by a coordinated group, period.

As far as I’m concerned anyone who groups up either needs to do it in rated BGs or be placed in a separate queue with other premades.

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Seperate queue is fine. People make rated bgs or arenas to gear up. Not for fun.

My friend became +2400 to get 445 ilvl from pvp chest and 440 from mythic key chest. Rated bg and arena goal is this.

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Premade groups will stay. I read what you wrote to him. But you deleted it before my reply.

They can only make matchmaking system for randoms.

If you dont have any friend to queue bgs with group of 5 I’m sorry for you. Because wow is mmo.

Can you raid or do mythic key alone ? Same goes with random bgs epic bgs rated bgs and arenas.

Its a mmo. And this premade system is available since tbc expension.

Get some real life friends to play with you at least if you cant make some pvp friends.

On this forums who write actively like 40% of them inside the communities I’m in from horde side and alliance side. They queue as group of 5.

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The issue isn’t 5 friends joining a BG to have a laugh and have fun it’s when it’s more than 5 people getting into BGs and playing them like they are a ranked game.

The whole point of this post wasn’t to complain about not being able to play with friends the point is that there are players who are seemingly breaking the ToS by getting into BGs as a group of 10+

Also you can’t compare PvP to PvE due to the fact they are so different. For example if say you raided with random players but then if you didn’t kill the bosses faster then a group of premades you then got locked out of loot then and only then could you compare PvE to PvP but since that isn’t a thing please don’t compare the two.

Additionally even if you play with friends what I have done there are still times where if you are for example playing with 2 friends and then you go against a team of 10 you are still going to lose badly.

Also the reason I deleted my reply to that person was due to the fact I would rather not waste my time answering a troll.

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On this topic like 70% play with community.

Pve didnt have rating they brought rating to pve too. Rio is pve rating.

And when you enter a random bg , you wipe out 2700 rio players they tell you 400 rio garbage with making 1 level character. Because happened to me last week.

Pve is rio. Pvp rating is different. You will lose all the time to a 2100 and more rating pvp player even if you have 3000 rio. Because its pve rating.

Why I’m telling you this. If you are getting graveyard camped in a random bg , your team is very bad comparing team. Which is you got +2400 rating exp 0 rio players as enemy.

If you want to play better like them. Get some training and then go into rated stuff like them. Then it will take 8 months to be good player like them.

I never made 3v3. Like 2 days ago I played 1.5 hours I have been 1600 rating in 1.5 hours. My friend played entire season he says he couldnt get 1600 in 3s. It took 1.5 hours for me.

These people play wow for pvp. And they made friends and stuff. They queue bgs play them.

I didnt know most people here. But we ended up in same communities on both horde and alliance sides.

Person who reported me and gave me forum ban is in same community with me and with my friends right now. And we play together within that community people.

Solo is not a good thing on mmo. Make some friends by getting in communities.

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I play quite a lot in premades (group of 3-5 players). I win between 80 to 100% of those games, depending on who Im playing with. We’re hardly ever on voice, and if we communicate, its through the bg chat, just like anyone else.

The reasons why games end up one-sided are the following:

  • gear, essences etc
  • classes/specs
  • skill
  • teamwork

Even though preventing groups from joining would probably help make games more balanced overall, I dont think its the right solution. Instead they should rework the pvp gearing system, so that casual pvp players dont have to do pve in order to get somewhat decent gear. And equally important they need to fix class balance in pvp, because atm specs like destro warlock and dk are worth 2-3 other players of equal skill.

Teamwork and communication have very low impact compared to class composition and gear.

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I’m sorry but I couldn’t disagree more with you on your quote with “Teamwork and communication have very low impact compared to class composition and gear.”

If Teamwork and Communication has such a low impact then you just need to check out top level Arena players as that shows you how key those two things are and that filters down. The same works for pvp I’ll use an example I had a few years back. My team and I were losing badly but then one random player decided he wasn’t going to let us lose. He spammed chat telling people where to go and they listened. Long story short we ended up winning just barely. But if it hasn’t been for that one random player giving out instructions that then encouraged others to then give out useful info we would of lost no question.

I hope I don’t sound like a troll here but I am 100% confident that if you got into a group with your 4 friends to make a 5 man premade team and went vs a fully 10 man premade team you would lose and it wouldn’t even be a challenge for the 10 man premade.

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I never said teamwork doesnt matter. It just doesnt matter as much as many people like to believe.

As for going up against a 10 man premade, that simply depends how good they are, what gear they have, and what specs they play. You seem to think that there’s a static level to every single bg premade. Some people join with guildies in a completely casual setting, others join as groups with only geared people playing the best specs.

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So now we should blame people that they play with skill? Nice logic…

I can see very well where you’re getting, you want random bgs to be played only “with friends for fun” and the issue is “fun” players vs “those playing more competitively”. But we can’t limit people on how they play the game. Those who lose vs more skilled, it’s only their fault.

Should we destroy any competitiveness in random bgs because some people want to only use them for short “fun” breaks between raiding and M+? Mind that random bgs are also the place to learn, so what happen with people that finally “learn”, they become premades?

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