Randoms vs Premades - Lets have an adult discussion

If you are going to get 3 fire mage and 2 destruction lock on enemy team as premade , you will understand what it means.

You said you want an adult discussion but put this crap in your opener.

An “unfair” advantage refers to anything that breaks the game, such as abusing an exploit where one might stack potions or items that shouldn’t stack, or using an ability without triggering it’s cooldown.

Having friends and teammates isn’t an UNFAIR advantage.

Also, not all premades are tryhard honor farmers. A lot of them are small groups of friends that enjoy playing together in a more casual environment than what ranked offers. If you force those people out of games, they won’t move on to ranked battlegrounds, they’ll just quit.

What happens to your queues then?

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Can we just clarify. For once, specifically.

That we aren’t calling out people who play with 3-4 friends in a group of 5. We’re calling out people who orchestrate battlegrounds where multiple groups of 5 who are playing with eachother are getting in at once.

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It takes too much time to do it. Nobody will try to do it for random bgs except some russian communities I know from horde side.

Russian communities on alliance side makes it only for epic bgs they dont bother with small ones. But they have toons of germans and eu players in their group when they do that.

Op is complaining that queue should be 1 player queue system. Which will be end of wow pvp. He needs to make friends and queue as group of 5.

On this topic except icefall (as far as I understand him I dont know him) nobody plays pvp without friends group of 5.

I have an arena master priest healer friend and shadow priest hota friend. I always play with them everyday for 6-8 hours.

He needs to make some friends too.

From the conversation we had at the start of this post, I don’t think he’s complaining about groups smaller than 6.

He isn’t though. See

I don’t, I queue with 1 extra person usually, if anyone, though I did get invited to a group of 2 others last night.

A big part of the problem with “Premades” right now, at least to me, is the massive difference in skill, ilvl, spec viability, and the number of “noob trap” / “mandatory” pvp talents there are across numerous specs that people need to either always take or avoid like the plague to be effective.

Not only do you need to hope your team has more than 300k hp, they need to be playing things that are effective in BGs, they need to know that 2-3 of their 20+ talents are the reason their spec is good, they need to use them, and they need to be able to play their classes too.

Being able to skip all of that and just invite friends you know have the gear, the understanding, and play specs that are effective is a huge part of why people feel premades are oppressive.

I’m not against premades, not in the slightest. But I do think that people feeling they need to resort to them to get an enjoyable pvp experience speaks to a much bigger problem with the design of PvP in BFA. Both class design and gear progression.

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Yes more than 5 premades are annoying.

Only russians do that.

2 arena master/hota healer , 1 tank , 2 hota/gladiator dps premade 48/50 win on bgs. Thats what I do. On 10 man bgs you dont need more than 5 to carry rest.

Another thing is that SO MANY people feel there’s a need to play in groups like these for PvP to be enjoyable, that it’s not that rare for two groups of players to end up on the same team together. When groups start overlapping like that it gets really ridiculous.

Especially once you add the mercenary system, which leads to most horde players queueing as a group to be queued on alliance. So there’s considerably less groups on horde for the alliance groups to queue into / balance out.

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Yes I agree that more than 5 premade is annoying. They become so much bunch of try hard groups even tho you lead the game.

My one of favorite healer (arena master) friend is on defias brotherbood your server. Burekodsira. He is very nice healer. And I have seen many more good people from that server too.

They can avoid those more than 5 people premade system with taking baseline group of 5 players.

If you make a matchmaking system , for both team to have 5 players premade. If one side queue 2 groups as 5 people premade. When you take 5 players premade baseline. Enemy side will have 2x 5 players premade too with matchmaking system.

So bliz need to count 5 players premade groups and give enemy side same numbers of 5 people premades. Its not hard. But they dont do since burning crusade. If enemy team queue 2x 5 people premades , blizz can give enemy side 2x 5 people premades too. Its simple matchmaking system. But you get many solo. This matchmaking system is not available.

I think the issue with that is the sheer number of premades who are able to queue alliance, and have no downside at all compared to them queueing horde. I think a “solution” would be to have merc mode not be 100% to queue alliance if you’re in a group, but instead to queue you as both, and then put you wherever makes the most “Balanced” game.

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Yeah could be that too.

“not fun” yes, because premades cannot gank the opposit team anymore… “not fun” because its bus vs bus with an equal gear ilvl, “not fun” because of the same unkillable peeled healers on both sides.

We all understand very well why you enjoy randoms BG and why you dislike rated. I don’t blame you for this but unlike what you keep writing everywhere most of players prefer solo queuing its much more relaxing. Keep lying to yourself if you need to, but many of your random BG wins are against pug, not premades.

“Its a MMO, join a PVP community etc…” You have to understand the rated BGs completely died because htis bracket requires to join a PVP community. Random BGs are currently dying for the same. As you said it earlier, premade vs premade is not fun at all…

The only outcome would be to bring back rated BGs to life, by allowing to solo queue in LFR with a matchmaker based on gear and rating. And then disabling premades in randoms

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i dont mind premades let friends guild members play together, its gear specs essences etc that are the problem. Why should you need 440 plus gear to be competitive in random battlegrounds where the rewards are 385. Communications do help out we can work together 5 of us can try to take a flag defended by 1 450k dk.

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How abut scaling in random BGs but the rewards scale to your current gear and spec?

No, I fight against my horde side community 4 times a day. We win. They are all +2k players too. Depending on other 5 people on pug not our premade we lose too. But we win quite often against those premades.

On this threas only 2 players queing solo. Because I know the rest of the players.

To be honest i casually pvp for fun, i agree with scaling for random bg, leave the better geared more serious players do rated where it is not scaled. Not to bothered about the gear I just think random battlegrounds should be where players can go and have some fun. The current state it is in just isnt fun at all.

Scale is good. Not fun to play random bg with 200k hp people.

Russians report afk and kick those people. While eu try to win with them , and when things go ill , eu people leave very often.

I have had a forum player who writes here on horde side yestersay. When only team 50k hp healer couldnt heal them. Horde didnt have any honorable kill and got farmed. And that forum player left bg.

He is a good person. I dont tell anything to him. Or give his name.

There are forum players here too who tells report afk that lowbies before bg begins.

But scaling can solve many problems.

it would be fairly simple to stop atleast the 2 5 man groups join in same bg what seems to happen now and then.
buy changing how the BG groups are, instead of having alliance vs horde you change it to alliance vs alliance, horde vs horde, or horde vs alliance, this meens if 2 groups que at same time, the chance you end up in same team is smaler, even if que pops at same time.

heck they could even mix and match people in bgs, where you are mixed whit horde or alliance, considering horde is already queing up as merc, it should not matter at all.

What blizzard cares is money. I was invited to such a german-russian pvp community and my experience was like that: They are all sitting on discord for about 1 hour to manage entering alteraic valley battleground as 8 groups of 5 people at the same time. A premade of 40 people.
These guys i was listening to, were russians adults and they were taking very seriously their task.

As i learned later some bets with real money are involved in all this cumbersam situation…

And blizzard wants them happy.

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Honestly instead of lampooning people for premading in BFA battlegrounds, we should be calling for all the things that drove people to feel the need to play in organised groups in the first place.

1: Removal of the PvP gear progression loop and the gear disparity it causes.

2: Specs viability living or dying on correct azerite / honour talent choices.

3: Massive power difference between classes and specs in battlegrounds.

Some see those grouping up in random BGs as a problem, others see it as a solution to the three problems above. The quality of random battlegrounds has plummeted over the past few years, I can’t speak for epic BGs as I rarely ever step foot in them, so this isn’t about those trying to get 40 people into the same AV.

So, in short, instead of campaigning for people to be unable to queue with groups, we should be campaigning for a game where people don’t feel they need to.

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True

Current system force people to play with 5 players groups and not to queue solo.

Myself if I see half of team under 220k hp. I directly leave bg. You cant carry all those people unless you are a good 5 players group.

They need to make scaling or they queue bg and expect to be carried if they get good group.

These situations make people play 5 people premades. Every bg is with shadowlands boost toons right now. And they lose every bg if they dont get carried.