it feels to me that the spec doesnt have enough dmg, in most lobbies i get outdpsed by other specs easily, i feel like i cant compete.
we have no anti heals our CC are weak, magic bop is nerfed our pvp talents are pure garbage and now our dps is weak as well.
For a spec with no spammable snare and no MS effect to also have no pressure basically means it does nothing once it has used BoP/Freedom/Sac/Lay.
Ret pala is back to being a buffbot but people still love to complain about them as if they are putting out S tier, unstoppable damage. 
Wake me up for season 2 dude.
For a class with back to back immunity and/or “full” heal not much more can ever be given. Sink or swim depending on dmg and dmg alone.
There is only so much they can add each new expansion on new dmg abilities however without watering down on what came before far to much. But its already at a breaking point yet again.
For example Templar strike buffed into Final Verdict to give it that little extra it started to lack but that can only get you so far. Add Hammer of light + passive while lowering dmg of FV and generators. Add hero talents while lowering Hammer of light etc etc.
Illusion of new talents added while allocating dmg away from the old to the new and the cycle repeats until the spec breaks and the 5th+ Ret rework comes.
Ppl keep talking about the DF rework as it was something new, they just didnt have the time to do it for DF launch. thats it! Otherwise it would just be the “norm” of new expansion like when going from WoD to Legion. That was also a Rework, same with TBC → WotlK or Wotlk → Cata.
Ret is a spec that is reworked often yet stays mainly the same with very little actual change.
Seems ret was performing better than expected.
You should see the buffs they get for s2 
Everything in their spellbook buffed 25-50%
In other words… the dmg wasn’t a problem.
Love the consistency of their train of thought/reasoning.
dmg wasnt a problem?
i pull 100k dps in my mage, hunter and 50k dps on my ret, what dmg is not a problem?
almost every arena and ret dmg is the lowest
Read the blue quote 2 posts above, then combine it with what is planned for s2
unsubed until microslop gets some reason
As much as i hate Microsoft for what they have done to gaming overall, im fairly sure paladin balance aint on them.
I cancelled my subscription thinking the same thing, but I am already breaking and contemplating resub as I am sadly afraid of missing out. Lol
Imagine complaining about a class thats literally Godmode with 100 immunities 100% hp heal, absorb and can spam unremovable slows to you, all while self healing like nothing else in the game.
Ret is ……..
All abilities have 20+ yard range. The gameplay is easy.
Your burst is on 30 seconds CD and guess what? It is range AGAIN.
You can use hand of protection and divine shield right with forbearance on ( let me mention the healing that shield provide, 10% HP for every dot you have on max to 30%).
You can top yourself in one button.
You have a horse 2x in case you somehow need to get to your enemy and freedom which gives speed with talent.
You have a big shield on super low CD that also reduce all damage you take for 10 seconds or so.
Last night I logged in just to see the game since I haven’t played in 2+ weeks just to see frost dk vs ret pala fuel and guess what? The ret pala was hitting the dk from a far. Grip into freedom and horse meanwhile bombing the dk.
Same thing in arenas and rbgs.
Templar strikes / CSAA is not, so when not in melee we generate less HP and do less FVs. And lest not forget Art of war procs
Oh and all hard CC is melee range, Rets slow is the weakest slow in game. Wont get near anyone if freedom aint up.
There is a reason why ppl still bother to kite rets.
When “burst” is that low on CD its no longer burst, its now sustained dmg. And Rets are not even close on the high end burst ladder in pvp.
The immunities that Ret has is and always will be a problem. In no way shape of form should paladins have gotten more of them nor shorter debuff etc.
The Range Rets got on attacks instead of actual abilities is just Blizz not caring to actually fix the class. It was a lazy fix equivalent to kicking the can down the road.
No other class does this?
2 horses but just 1 freedom, horse last longer then freedom and the sprint buff dont stack.
Also, its just a flashy rogue sprint AND they are faster! + have actual gapclosers
It absorbs a wee bit more then a mages shield (like 70k dmg) and mages of all specs will get 2 charges of them on a 30 sec CD and lasts 1 min.
Yhea… them freedom lasting 24/7 and DK only having one grip, 0 slows, 0 ranged CC, 0 horses of their own, 0 pets. Nor do they have a bubble of their own negating 95% of a Rets dmg and CCs on a far shorter CD then bubble.
Again… main problem with Rets is the Bubble/BoP/Spellward/LoH, i agree. A class shouldn’t be balanced around immunities.