I would say that I know because that add-on for that boss I told you about, we were told by our raid leader to install it before we even had a chance to do our first pull. The reasoning he gave was literally “we will kill this faster if everyone has it”. It wasn’t a reaction to some of us being bad or the game having poor visual/audio cues, it was simply viewed as an advantage we should exploit.
Being authentic means being slower which means some other guild gets ahead instead of yours. That’s just how competitive raiding is a lot of the time. It says more about the players than the game. People will most times take the easiest route because the material reward is the same as taking the hardest, and you get bragging rights if you kill things faster than someone else.
FFXIV doesn’t allow add-ons, which means the raiding scene is quite different…but you can bet your life that if the ban ever gets lifted you’ll see the same sort of add-ons you see for WoW. There are some around but they’re sometimes awkward to get working so generally only raiders use them. But point being even in a game that has a ban on add-ons, some players still feel the need to have them. Often people feel compelled to take advantage of anything they can. Especially in competitive raiding. Even when it’s at the cost of the quality of the experience.
You wanna talk about challenging?
2 of classic’s endgame raids has been beaten in less than 6 days. By a raid that had level 50 people in it as the majority. How challenging was that?
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You miss the context of what I meant by what I said, basically if Blizzard had developed the game in a different way to which they have currently then the “need” for these type of addons may not have been necessary by the player base.
As for the particular addon you mentioned, I answered that in a different post that it is ludicrous that an addon should be needed for a single mechanic.
And your ability to do this without that addon was never questioned.
No, doing the content authentically would mean that you learn the encounter the way it was intended to be learned, by experiencing the mechanics and learning through that experience.
If it ends up being slower its because it wasn’t learned efficiently enough for the pace that you wanted to do it at.
Using an addon for this is like having your hand held through various parts of the encounter.
Some people take the easiest route simply because it requires less effort on their part. Its not always about the material reward(s) or bragging rights.
I don’t doubt this but FFXIV has nothing to do with this discussion.
I wasn’t clear. What I said wasn’t my personal opinion, but it’s how competitive raiders often view raiding. When you’re in that environment you are often expected to use whatever advantages you can get. Things like group composition, specific combat assignments, voice chat and add-ons. Your competitors would be, so if you want to keep up then you need to as well.
More that it ends up being slower because you have less tools to work with. It’s like the difference between a carpenter with power tools, and another with normal tools. They can both make beautiful furniture and maybe even at the same quality, but the one with power tools is able to complete pieces faster.
I completely agree and I never liked the idea of relying on add-ons so heavily, but I wasn’t the raid leader so I didn’t have much say when we were told “everyone must have this”.
Actually it does because it shows that even in a game that gets very regular ui updates and QoL, people still want to use add-ons even if it puts their account at risk. That’s how much some people want to have an edge, or to personalise their game experience. Blizzard didn’t create this mentality. It just so happens some players are like this, and even more so in competitive environments.
Before you gave the impression you thought this mentality surrounding add-ons was a Blizzard issue, which is why I brought up FFXIV.
Well I can spam frostbolt for 30 minutes or 2 hours doesn’t change much for me.
true, but is that any different from retail? 
A divided community is a conquered community!
There is no doubt that the last 5 bosses of the 4th difficulty setting of the 4th raid of the 7th expansion are more challenging than classic. Now, what about the rest of the content?
Try solo yetimus in hillsbrand.
I don’t bother with Classic. But the thing that bother me is the Acti-Blizzard are focusing mainly on Classic and kinda forget that retail must continue. Thats the big issue for me. I mean come on Classic is old , something that finished long time ago , sure release it once and for all and start focusing on retail. You can’t have a game that get you customers if you live on old larves and forget the current state of it. After few months most Classic people will come back to retail and when they see that nothing is happening they are going to leave. This game suffered eniugh damage , by going back in time and focus in the past and forget the present this will bring nothing good to World of Warcraft.
TBH if WoW hadn’t changed, it would have died by now, Classic is showing that more than a few people don’t like the speed etc of it, and wouldn’t have even contemplated playing on. Myself included tbh, got to Level 9 and gave up, just don’t have the time, or indeed the inclination to continue.
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Ye let me just hit up my mage on classic, level up, go molten core and mash my head on my keyboard spamming frostbolt while im using my keyboard as some kind of guitar above my head while looking away from my screen to finish the bosses. I think its just much more challenging to play classic than retail cause of this exercise.
All right sarcasm off. But yes, im talking about Naowh and i laughed so hard looking at it
Im so glad you enjoy classic and there is a forum to share your fantastic experiences of autoattacking, spamming one button and drinking after every boar, but im afraid this is not that section.
Let ppl enjoy retail and we will let you enjoy playing classic. Im sick of seeing every thread on RETAIL general about classic all right?
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Outside of leveling everything else is harder or equal. When it comes to leveling, it is simply more time consuming rather then hard.
About leveling, people are spamming dungeons in classic to level more then in retail. Even 5 men groups in dungeons like Zul’Farrak easy pull 6-7 mobs and aoe them down, about as much we pull in retail atm. And if it’s a group full of mages they pull 12-15 mobs. The whole thing with cc and coordination to make it past the first pack in classic turned out to be another one of classics myths.
You mean the following?
“Hi invite pls, thx, thx the party, bye”
so you get bored by challenging content but not by auto attacking a mob for 30sec and afterwards drinking 10secs?
Weird perception.
I get it m+ is not for everyone but telling me autoattacking a mob is super fun, well now I heard it all
move along folks
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Seems like you got a lot of retail experience sir 
I don’t understand anyone who likes gambling weekly for better gear, whether it have a slotted or TFed. Seems like something you’d play for 20 minutes at the pub. A quick fix. No thanks.
I’d prefer to play an actual MMORPG where character development actually is a thing, and when you farm for something; you know exactly what you’re going to get once it drops, and you can move onto another goal, and it’s not a gamble of who can get the same item, but upgraded 5x more. Gross 
Having 0 goal and always having THAT tiny chance of upgrading is toxic, and doesn’t give you that nice completed feeling.
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