R.I.P Rogue - ALL SPECS!

Classes Rogue
1

Firstly, i wanna thank blizzard that made it real. And secondly nobody wants to add rogues into raids, dungeons… well they’Re right! Thanks to class designers there is no UTILITY! No DAMAGE!

NOTHING!

Why i can’t be a raider as the class i want to play? Why should i play meta char at all??? Is this game really evolves to league of legends???

Im playing over 10 hours a day yeah wow is the only thing i care about for now.

MAKE THIS CLASS PLAYABLE AGAIN DEAR BLIZZARD PLEASE

(PS: IM NOT SORRY FOR THE CAPS, I MEANT THAT!!!)

12 Likes
2

Outlaw was made for masochists now,rework so awful,i cant imagine DF rework and this was made by same team or person

8 Likes
3

Keep this topic up, I brought this from US forum

mobs in dungeons are CONSTANTLY targeting me with spell casts when I’m in stealth when someone else pulls them. also happens in delves

You are absolutely right. Not only this, though - sometimes you just drop out of stealth for no reason.

And on top of THAT… loads of mobs have true sight / stealth detection, and there’s a couple of delves with eyeballs that are designed to seemingly just not allow stealth in the majority of the delve.

And to just make that giant middle finger from the devs even bigger, you can’t even pick pocket from probably more than half of the humanoids in the expansion.

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Energy issues:

Thought i was the only person tired of this?

Midnight outlaw has so much downtime because of energy starvation it makes me extremely mad, energy serves NO purpose on this spec other than to lock down your rotation and make it feel like dogwater.

I don’t mind energy, I just don’t like needing absurd amounts of haste just to avoid getting stuck auto attacking when tea runs out. If they made energy regen suck less it’d be fine.

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  1. Fix energy for all three specs. Assassination needs a come to Jesus moment the most. Lesser extent with Outlaw and Sub.

  2. Spice up some of the capstones in the general tree and other spec trees.

  3. A lot of active talent choices are under tuned (eg Gloomblade, Kspree, etc).

  4. Assassination still lacks a defensive talent option in its own spec tree.

  5. Outlaw needs better baseline survivability to be an out of stealth fighter

  6. Sub Rogue is so close to being perfect if it has something else to its rotation between downtime.

******

Crimson Tempest for assassination needs to spread to more targets, and have a priority set in place to spread the bleeds to targets that dont already have bleeds on them. Sometimes in a mass aoe pull I find myself running around in circles trying to NOT hit certain mobs in order to pray the bleeds spread to one’s that dont already have them, which seems counter-intuitive. As it stands now, the button is expensive and also time-consuming - and by the time all is set up, the other dps are already leagues ahead in their burst. That being said, this iteration is wayyy better than Indiscriminate Carnage, and synergies well with Deathstalker which is awesome!

There’s a lot to be said about energy regeneration in the prepatch, but I’ll hold my longterm thoughts until I get my hands on the Apex Talents to see if it helps my perception. Overall I’m pretty optimistic, as tuning numbers will be tuned. I’m holding out for a possible tank spec being added to rogue in later seasons!

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8 Likes
4

This is exactly the problem.

The issue is not just raw DPS. A small 4% damage buff does not fix energy starvation, random stealth drops, mobs in dungeons and delves targeting rogues through stealth, or the fact that Rogue often feels like it brings very little compared to other classes.

Right now the class feels frustrating, not just weak. At 252 ilvl I am struggling hard with higher delves and it feels like I have to fight the spec itself more than the content. Meanwhile other classes can do the same content with far less effort and bring more value to groups.

I have friends who played Rogue since Vanilla and even they gave up and rerolled, because the class fantasy and utility that once made Rogue special now feel either weaker or replaced by other classes.

That is why this tuning feels like a band-aid. Rogue does not only need a numbers pass. It needs gameplay fixes, stealth consistency, better energy flow, and a clearer reason to be wanted in raids, Mythic+, and delves.

4 Likes
5

So much this…

I switched my main. I couldn’t play Rogue anymore. I mained Outlaw for a while, but not anymore.
I’m tired of 2 resources. I’m tired of energy usage that forces you to auto-attack when you’re out of tea and can’t drink no more.
I’m tired of being squishy as hell. I’m tired of stealth bugs and general clunkiness of AoE and how dependent all our attacks are on energy.
Also, RNG kills it too. Sure it’s -better-, but it’s still there. Rogue just needs… more. I also hate the sound of skill effects for rogue–my eardrums die every time. Probably the worst sounds in game.

I wish they added a hero spec “Gunslinger” where you just switch to mid-range shooter, using crossbows and pistols, having similar range to Evoker.

6

Same, also switched off rogue this tier after maining it for years, didn’t even bother levelling to max.

Liquid already benching it in RWF, all three specs down bottom of the charts, still loads of gameplay issues across all of them, boring visuals, getting quite frankly insulting 3% buffs when so far behind.

Meanwhile hybrid specs with much more utility, burst, better raid buffs - better in every way pretty much just leaving them in the dirt and its been the same for ages now.

Even recent changes like removing aoe blind then adding it back, finally making crimson vial semi-decent but only in open world because they struggle to even do preys. Minimum effort.

Devs should quite frankly be embarrassed with the state of them.

3 Likes
7

They need to really do away with energy all together. Our resource should be making and spending combo points, energy feels clunky af going along side of it.
Mana classes havent worried about resources for years.
I switched to rogue for midnight and I feel like ive made a mistake, never have I had to stop mid rotation to wait for some resource to build up again :man_facepalming::man_facepalming:

3 Likes
8

The saddest part is that it genuinely feels like there is nobody at Blizzard who actually takes long term ownership of classes anymore.

This game has been around for more than 21 years. At this point, the same balance problems showing up expansion after expansion are just embarrassing. I could understand this if WoW was a brand new game, but it is not. They have had over two decades to learn from their own mistakes, and yet every expansion we go through the exact same cycle again. Bad tuning, clunky design, obvious gameplay issues, then tiny band aid buffs that do not address the real problem.

And it is not even just about numbers. That is what makes it worse. People are talking about energy starvation, stealth breaking for no good reason, mobs targeting Rogues through stealth, lack of utility, lack of a real group spot, and specs feeling frustrating to play even when you try to make them work. A 3 or 4 percent buff does not fix a class that feels broken at the design level.

What makes it even more frustrating is the amount of bugs still in the game. Players report them constantly on the forums, and I have experienced bugs myself just doing daily quests. At some point it starts to feel like they do not even properly play their own game, because if they did, a lot of this would be obvious immediately.

That is the real issue. It is not one bad patch. It is the same story over and over again in a 21 year old game that should be far more polished than this by now.

And yes i playing Rogue Assa from Vanilla.

5 Likes
9

I’ve never left a post before on Forums as I’ve always thought it would be completely pointless, but I’ve been so disenchanted by Rogue in Midnight I felt the need to seek out if it is just a me problem. I main Outlaw and have for years, since BFA.

I don’t understand what the point of reworking classes is, if you fundamentally screw up how they work. Outlaw went from a face-paced perma-cooldown ADHD infused crazed spec.

It’s been reworked, where they added a talent for you to do NOTHING. for 9 seconds. The scism from rapidly pressing buttons jumping from pack-to-pack like a maniac has been changed to slow-paced, low-damage STANDSTILL nonsense. It’s really jarring. I understand the spec had to change because it wasn’t new-player friendly. However that only makes sense if what you provide afterwards motivates anyone to play the spec fullstop. We have low damage output unless we’re fighting tons of mobs - even then - other specs are better. We have no raid utility, so there’s no pug incentive to bring us. You can’t kill anyone in PVP.

How is this acceptable for people who pay for the game. On the one hand you ask people to care about their characters they’ve been playing for years, then nuke them out of orbit. How did you get this so wrong?

Am I crazy, does anyone enjoy Outlaw? If anyone does, I’d love to understand how that’s possible. Right now the only bonus I’ve got is I can grapple hook across the map quickly and vanish to reset aggro.

My frustration comes from the fact I’ve been enjoying something for years. For it to be demolished for nothing :upside_down_face:. I challenge anyone to compare the TWW Outlaw to this and demonstrate how this playstyle is better.

Anyway, rant over I guess.

1 Like
10

To be fair, this is a talent for downtime. It’s kinda bad (it needs to be basically always active when you’re not hitting anything, rather than just 5 seconds), but it has a purpose for downtime in fights.

However, I do agree that Blizz went too far. Precise Cuts was basically necessary for the spec to function in AoE that isn’t strictly 8-target cleave, BF target hard cap needs to be a soft cap instead, and damage needs to be higher in general.

1 Like
11

Yeah the purpose of the talent is fine, but the principle of it sucks :sweat_smile:. It’s mainly used out of combat in world, in dungeons during dialogue to get your cds back up. But the principle of it, is like - you’re going to have to stand still and do nothing for 9 seconds. When I’ve just played 18 months of ADHD fueled mania :rofl:.

12

Tried raiding this week with assa and sub. It’s rough. Don’t think i’ll do that again this season.

13

Blizz nailed it with rogue design, claps for them for making most players quitting, me included.

Idk how long its been since we’ve been ditched and ignored, how is the rogue dev not fired yet?

14

My dear, what makes you think there IS a Rogue dev? For all we know, it’s four people doing all the classes and Rogue is just on the lowest priority list due to a combination of personal biases and preconceptions like “Rogue is a PvP class” that have been obsolete for almost 20 years yet somehow persist.

15

The rogue dev was called “realz” he also managed the demon hunter specs though took a new position and we no longer have a class designer since the war within beta and this shows by the poor state the class has been in since then…. on a brighter note demon hunters are “fine”.

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I rarely if ever, post something on any forums.

But the state that the rogue class is in the game as of midnight. Is so appalling that i stopped playing the damned class as a main for the first time since TBC, could not find the willpower to level past 84… Made me want to rip my hair off, due to the slow / passive, energy starved thankless play style rogues got to contend with now.

IMO, rogues peaked in mop, after that, it has been a slow downward spiral to death for the class.

Blizz incessant need to prune the class and mess up the specs, to the point that it feels like you are playing 1 spec that’s broken up in 3 lesser whatever, garbage one wants to call the travesty those individual specs have become. With a little bonus of bugs, that keeps you in combat, and drops you from stealth just because **** you, is just a bit too much, and frankly silly.

Unless, you’re a masochist ofc.

The class never needed any pruning of any sort, it never had a button bloat to begin with.

Other classes sure had issues with too many buttons, but rogues never had that problem.

17

i have and always will play rogue but ive been insulted 3 times today due to my low parses as an assassination rogue compared to other classes/

This is the worse assassination has ever played the gameplay is mundane and lackluster at best, the rework in dragonflight has ended up being the bane of the spec the hero talent and have always been terrible and lacked imagination from the start.

Mop rogue felt good because you had things to help your team, bringing smoke bomb back to pve with its 20% damage reduction would help rogues with there raid spot though none of this fixes the damage done to the rogue spec since dragonflight season 2.

max called it when he said the damage profile of the spec referred to as funnel damage is usually hard to balance and gets nerfed into the ground. so here we are and yet another “spriest and ret paladin reworks” and nothing ever gets done.

rogues are just as neglected as the whole pvp system

18

Rog has no Dev since a while, its clearly visible. The new Crimson sucks, previous one was tons better.

And im general is a struggle to get in anywhere with a class that is beeing ingored since months, previous season rog was bugged the whole season. Noone gave a crap abt. They were busy working the DH which needs to be the top class every single season, cuz all kids playing it..

19

lack of care from any blizzard employee or “MVP” being constantly abused for not playing meta specs when this game comes with a front loaded dps meter which has turned everyone into a dps drone only caring about nothing but damage therefore there is no reason why any class that has only options to do damage is being beaten by a aug evoker or any hybrid for that fact that’s why there was dps tax’s put in place in the first place without any dps tax on support roles any pure dps class falls by the way side this is a problem warrior and dk had when ret paladins now as much damage as a warrior just offers more support to his team so you always pick a ret due to constant damage and can support your healer this is also why warrior has received alot of utility this expansion to help address this issue……

How are you making the same mistakes over and over again, bring smoke bomb as a capstone class talent for rogues so we can assist our team also the problem with rogues is we also use energy/ combat points to maintain our cc which is a massive dps loss, especially for a class like assassination which is starved of energy as it is, as the new apex talent which relies on us overlapping envenoms to maintain our energy so any time you aren’t using combat points for envenoms your dps will take a massive hit and that’s not even the biggest problem with the envenom talent as its pretty much built in the spec to afk and stop damage during a pull just to watch the buff fall off so you can start building stacks again as you get to max stacks and max combo points with nothing to spend them on or have any further room to build further combo points leaving you just sitting there afk like you are playing runescape. this is a problem because as pilav said “I DON’T WANT TO STOP DOING DAMAGE!”.

pulling energy has made this spec one of the most unenjoyable versions of assassination i have ever played. how was dragonflight without hero talents or apex talents a better version of assassination to play? how have you managed to drop the ball this many times in a row? the hero talents and the hero talent rework this expansion is terrible and has just caused more problems while being lack luster and now the apex talents just like the hero talents are causing more issues than they are fixing?

blizzard devs and employees constantly act as if we never give feedback and we constantly do but its feel incredibly frustrating when you feel like you are shouting into the void just for them to come back and ask for more feedback as if you haven’t been providing it for months, this has and always be a problem with blizzard as they prefer to do things that give them good press in the public light rather than address issues within the game they prefer to virtual signal about social issues than address fundamental problems the game has. i know this as people like venruki stream all day every day saying that they alert the devs in the private discord the content creators have for wow and they do not address the issues at all. this is a shame as someone who has connections like venruki cant even get the bugs fixed what chance do we have sitting here pointless shouting into the void but they are happy enough to take my money every month/year.

1 Like
20

I had a very similar experience yesterday on my Assa Rogue in LFR.

At first I was actually surprised, because I was sitting somewhere around the middle of the DPS table and for a moment I thought maybe things were not as bad as they felt before.

Then my Thistle Tea ran out.

And the spec immediately turned into a complete disaster. The energy starvation became so bad that my character was basically just standing there auto attacking with daggers because I simply did not have enough energy to keep the rotation going in any reasonable way.

That is exactly the problem. Rogue does not just feel undertuned. It feels mechanically broken the moment the spec loses the one thing that is masking how awful the energy flow really is.

Has anyone else noticed the same thing on Assa in longer fights? Because this did not feel like normal downtime. It felt genuinely broken.