Rise of Azshara PTR - Initial Class Changes

(Kaivax) #1

We’ve been working on a suite of targeted changes that focus on improving gameplay for several specs. You’re going to see changes that are close to the following in the first build of the Rise of Azshara PTR (coming next week).

Demon Hunter

  • Vengeance
    • Demonic Wards: damage reduction increased to 15% (was 10%).
    • Demonic Wards: armor bonus increased to 100% (was 80%).
    • Demon Spikes: armor reduced to 60% of Agility (was 85%).
      • Developers’ notes: More than other tanks, Vengeance is currently dealing with the problem of low mitigation when their active mitigation is down. These changes are a substantial increase to physical mitigation when Demon Spikes is down, and a neutral-to-very-slight increase when Demon Spikes is active. There is also some overall passive reduction to magic damage. Overall, Vengeance’s sustained damage taken will be lower, and the periods of vulnerability outside of Demon Spikes should be less dramatic.


  • Soothe, Remove Corruption, Moonfire, and Rebirth are no longer castable in Cat or Bear form by default.

  • Feral Druids now have a visible passive learned at level 22 that allows Remove Corruption and Soothe to be cast in Cat Form.

  • Guardian Druids now have a visible passive learned at level 10 that allows Soothe, Remove Corruption, Moonfire, and Rebirth to be cast in Bear Form.

    • Developers’ notes: Guardian Druid is limited in its practical ability to use some utility abilities while tanking, and we’re loosening that restriction by allowing Remove Corruption in Bear Form. We’re also cleaning up Druid shapeshifting rules slightly: the use of magical-themed spells, in Feral forms, is allowed by passive upgrades given to Guardian and Feral specializations specifically. This represents their special mastery of their “home” form that allows for limited spellcasting, and from a gameplay perspective, this allows Feral/Guardian Druids to use spells in form where there is a strong practical need. At the same time, there are situations where there is no fantasy justification or gameplay need, and spellcasting might be more restricted. For example, non-Guardian Druids can no longer cast Moonfire in Bear Form.
  • Guardian

    • Ironfur and Maul now cost 40 Rage (was 45).
    • Mangle now generates 10 Rage (was 8).
      • Developers’ notes: Ironfur is intended to be maintainable with high uptime, up to 100%, and have some overlaps on top of that. Currently, depending on talent configuration, Druids may only be able to barely maintain full uptime on Ironfur. Making Ironfurs much more available should allow better control over timing and overlaps, as well as improving Guardian mitigation overall.
    • Shifting to Bear Form now gives 25 Rage (was 20).
      • Developer’s notes: It should now be much easier to get the first Ironfur activated promptly after engaging an enemy, due to the increased starting Rage and lower cost.
    • Mangle and Thrash direct damage increased by 15%.


  • Beast Mastery
    • Barbed Shot damage is now affected by Bestial Wrath.
    • Barbed Shot damage reduced by 10%.
      • Developers’ notes: We are fixing a bug that caused Bestial Wrath to not affect Barbed Shot damage, and lowering the base damage of Barbed Shot to keep overall damage roughly unchanged.


  • Outlaw
    • Keep Your Wits About You (Azerite Trait) now stacks once per instance of Blade Flurry dealing damage (was once for every target Blade Flurry hits). Each stack now provides 5% Sinister Strike chance (was 2%).
      • Developers’ notes: In very large packs of enemies, especially in dungeons, Keep Your Wits About You provides much more damage than one copy of one Azerite Trait was intended to provide. With this change, you’ll still feel this trait accelerate as you build stacks, but the size of the group that you’re fighting won’t affect how much damage the trait is giving you. This will be a damage increase against two targets, and a damage reduction against 3 or more targets.


  • Protection
    • Unstoppable Force Thunderclap damage reduced to 50% (was 100%).
      • Developers’ notes: Protection Warrior burst DPS with Avatar is extremely high for a tank. This talent was adding more damage than necessary, given that it also decreases Thunder Clap’s cooldown and synergizes well with certain Azerite traits.

We’ll update this post as necessary, especially as we develop PvP-specific tuning adjustments over the first few weeks of the PTR.

Upcoming PTR Class Changes 4/23
(Huntorz) #2

I guess you’ve given up on balancing talents for classes?

Nearly every spec is using a cookie cutter build that is the best for every situation, many specs only ever change 1 talent row depending on if they want AoE/Cleave or Single target. Some not even that ever.

There are so many talent rows that where 1 of the options does everything the best, and it’s not just numbers tuning, but the flexibility of that 1 option. For example T15 talents for Marksmanship Hunter, Master Marksman is the best single-target option and Cleave/AoE option, latter part by far. It really is so backwards class design to have 2 options that do nothing for either AoE or ST, and then have 1 that does both. Destruction Warlocks have the same issue with T60, Cataclysm does the best AoE, and the best ST(because the other options do 0 DPS).


Thanks for this candid update.

Looking forward to hopefully something in the pipeline for Unholy DK in M+ and raids. I can’t speak for all DKs, but I would love to see Army of the Dead tuned into a defensive cooldown à la Earth Elemental, and the baseline damage of the spec tuned up accordingly.

If this is a more numerical pass, it would be great to have the damage of Scourge Strike improved - it hits quite low compared to auto-attacks and is unlikely to impact PvP where it would likely still be superceded by Necrotic Strike.

Cheers, good luck, and have fun!

(Hexelyion) #4

I was hopeful for a redesign of some sorts. At least one skill that would allow the player to alter the way a spec is played.


I do get the warrior AOE Nerf and I am totally fine with it, but our single target DMG is pretty low already and will be even lower with this change. I hope they compensate a bit for it too.


Warriors have two issues right now: Prot being overtuned & Fury/Arms really lack luster compared to other melee classes. Looks like you’re addressing 1/2. Please tell me the other one’s being looked at as well.

Other than suggestions in this post (So much love for Warriors), would like to thrown in my vote for something like below (For Fury):

  1. Flat 10% damage increase for Rampage, Bloodthirster & Raging Blow.
  2. Recklessness increases Crit chance to 100%
  3. Make either Shockwave or Storm Bolt baseline ability - we need a stun without trading off better movement…
  4. Make Spell reflect base ability, not an honor talent


Still zero reason to ever use Maul as Guardian. Even with the Azerite Traits, its never really feasible to use it. Maul is just a dump for a small bit of damage. Not even if Maul was a multi-target hitter wud you effectively use it, you’d rather get a 3rd stack of Ironfur.

Either change Maul to have some sort of mitigation or synergy with the rest of the abilities, or make it cost way less.


Would Resto Shaman finally get some cool “water based damage”? I mean, we have earth and fire based damage… but no water based damage :frowning: Would have loved to see our healing spells also doing some damage at times so that we need not switch specializations for exploration content among others…


The idea is on bestial wrath to spam as many kill commands as possible and already messed up by the ton of globals you have to wait after each ability.
I think you should let it the way it was , its just making our burst rotation more messy.

(Paintrain) #10

Are you guys off your meds? Or do you just want to see absolutely nobody play warrior? If the later is your intention, just remove the class from the game. Arms is terrible and you should be ashamed of yourselves and Fury is MEH at best. But please by all means, nerf the only spec that people would willingly bring along to mythic plus.


Shaman use BUBBLEBEAM!!


Dude unholy killing it in the mdi. Doing over 1m dps on pulls, thats not an exageration.


How about we just leave cat/bear form unable to use caster abilities and balance the game around the player having to shift in and out to access special utility. That should be the core of druid.

The game has enough time where you are kiting or waiting for an increased damage taken buff to fall off to still have access to your utility.

“Ultimately, Druids are the jack of all trades and masters of none” - World of Warcraft official strategy guide.

(Lirena) #14

I hope the devs are willing to make more substantial changes to class gameplay in 8.2. They’ve been doing a good job at fixing, expanding, and improving the major content in BfA, but content isn’t able to shine unless your class is fun to play while you’re engaging with it.

Legion launched with similar class design problems, but the dev team weren’t afraid to make pretty substantial changes to the gameplay mid-expansion to make sure things started feeling better for players asap. BfA’s classes have barely been touched so far by comparison, and many have significant issues with their core gameplay loop, pacing, toolkits, and talent trees.

8.2 looks like it’s putting in a lot of effort to try and make BfA the great expansion it wants to be, so let’s have that effort and enthusiasm extended to class design as well!


Yeah the class Balance in legion was pretty good and got fixed fast if broken. Now they are broken and kept broken for several month until next patch, if they are even adressed at all.

Def warri is a good example: Unplayable from 8.0 till 8.1 and the only major change was: Remove Ignore pain from the GCD
8.1 till 8.2 broken and the only change will be a nerf to a single talent.

I don’t get it why these fixes take month in this expansion.

(Hínáta) #16

So is are arms warrior going to be addressed ?


fire mages?


Can VDH receive a reword in terms of souls please? I don’t like that souls are being consumed whenever I stand near stairs or anything. Make them simple buff with stacks and let me use them instead of seeing them wasted.


first: of all it’s the top
secondly: it is damage from all sources

Paladin, for example, only uses a divine storm and does enormous damage, one skill.
Unholy needs all skills.
If you do more, then you should receive more, that’s how I see it.
Besides, this is the only moment for unholy when it feels strong in the whole game. So these are very rare moments.
Now look at an outlaw. good dmg aoe and st in dungeons and especially on raids.
Unholy has only one good moment in the entire dungeon game under specific conditions. it’s not enough.

(Nuvic) #20

Please stop doing these 1 step foward 2 steps back for feral.

You made feral able to dispell in cat form. Great. But you took battle rez in forms away???!! Squishy melee with CR that has a cast time now have to shift out of form to use it. YIKES! You die before u get to CR.

You did the same thing last major patch. Made mastery affect bite but then reduced its dmg in pvp and removed the bite trait. Now feral is trash in pvp or below average at best. I have made a post here detailing what could be improved. Start with a group utility like 10% dot dmg/ 3%-5% crit buff and buffing damn bleeds that are even lower than rogue and arms.