https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/183150?blzcmp=app , any confirmation about this post changing the max Azerite piece reward from 2100 to 1800 ?
Actually a solid change if this is correct, it would atleast put 1800 rating in line with +10 dungeons with Azerite pieces and thatâs a lot more reasonable than 2.1
Yeah +10 is ludicrously easy in comparison and takes a quarter of the time.
To be honest, I wish theyâd double the CP gain again, having to win 20 2s matches is a bit extreme imo.
Itâs still hilarious that they try this way instead of adding vendors. This is getting mentalâŚ
This is a good change for sure, however I donât see why the pvp cache doesnât have the equivalent of titan residuum.
Because in every Q&A Ion says they hate vendors with gear. They invented Titanforge and Warforge only not to implement Badges. Thatâs their main goal. I donât know why they think badges were wrong when they were a thing nobody complained about them. Neither about emblems or Justice Points. The only stupid thing were set pieces sold for Badges/Points. This should never be a thing. Literaly what Blizzard is trying to do is not to add vendors to the game. If youâll watch this video:
Basically this guy talks whatâs their idea behind loot. Blizzard will try everything unless they give up to implement vendors. They just donât want you to buy items for currency.
itâs purely a business choice hence no matter how much topics people create about vendors it ainât happening this expansion and probably not the next one neither. the only way to hope being heard is to vote with your wallet.
After watching this video I feel that my eyes were opened. Basically it looks like theyâve seen some mechanics as a huge issue (badges and vendors) and were convinced that players would like randomly dropping their items more because itâs more âfunâ when players didnât really complain about Badges.
According to what they said stat prunning was done not to make the game easier for players but easier for them to balance. The result is terryfing because the game is less and less balanced instead because there is more depth and ways to make weaker specs work. Iâm pretty sure that class prunning was done for the same purpose.
Last thing that became clear to me is that devs are a group of people that also play WoW but all of them play it in quite similar way. There is no PvP arena player that focuses on it. Arena community is basically a side effect of implementing them. Devs thought that arenas will be extra content but didnât expect players to enjoy them that much to sub only to play arenas. They basically created this Frankenstein and they have no idea what to do with it. With their pov of dedicated/hardcore raider but casual PvP player they canât see most kf the problems we face. They realize them 1 month after patch/content release when itâs already commonly abused. If what Holinka said is true and he was only âthe gatekeeperâ that blocked whatever he could to make PvP not broken Iâm actually impressed because since he left balance looks even worse. I think that Holinka was underrated after how he fixed MoP. I remember that most of the fixes that were applied that made game good were his posts on @warcraftdevs twitter. The problem for us are these more important people that âimproveâ the game from their pov ignoring us.
Whatâs also weird to me is that they delegated Reaper of Souls team to fix WoW after WoD catastrophy. They literally implemented the same fixes they did to Diablo 3. More and more random loot. Implemented Rifts and Starctaft 2 mutators crossover as M+ and weekly rng rewards. Letâs be honest Reaper of Souls was average not even good. Definetely better than original Diablo 3 but come ob blindly implementing all things that âsavedâ diablo. What a crazy move. The only reason why Legion is see as success is that Illidan, Burning Legion and artifacts (not as system but fact that you could walk around with Ashbringer) carried that expansion. It was almost as bad as BfA but people didnât realize it then. BfA has few other annoying crap systems but overall these expansions are the same.
Interesting points, though some are unbelievable.
They didnât know arena community would from, ok, but that was long ago, they developed the whole âarena e-sportâ thing, no way they didnât realize they could capitalize on it.
The failure I attribute solely to personal failings of people being deciding factors that didnât do it well.
They obviously had the plan, at least at some point, realizing it has grown bigger, to capitalize on the PvP crowd. Someone badly failed and itâs all spaghetti who no one has the will or competence to refactor and clear. Maybe itâs too late and the resources would be too much without real return.
Still, there are very obvious things that could be fixed even now without much resource investment and the only stopping factor would seem to be some personal ego or incompetence at high posts - like Ion, for example, who doesnât strike me as a very bright and open-minded game designer from all the interviews with him.
Just listen to how WoW devs speak about their community and their game and then listen to devs from CD Project Red or Larian and you will see the huge difference.
The latter speak about their games and tech and process with love, interest and like making things for gamers from gamers.
The former are often arrogant, avoiding questions they donât like and trying to convince everyone else they are wrong, while they are right.
Watching the viewership on the arena tournaments makes you sad. Any random streamer prick has more viewers.
Arena specific gear
Personally, I wish they would just make it that thereâs an arena specific gear vendor. You can only wear that gear in arena and you can buy one piece for each slot for money. There are more pieces with different stats and getting those would require âhonourâ (yes) which you would farm from BGs.
Maybe you can buy the entry arena Tier with gold (all the pieces) and thereâs another Tier you can only buy with honour farmed in BGs which is slightly better.
This way, PvP players will enjoy the content they like and they will get to play some battlegrounds too which you have 0 incentive to play right now - on the contrary itâs a loss of your time that you need to invest in PvE currently.
Arena rewards / Transmog
Moreover, no transmog on Arenas (again what I would like). This way, the cosmetic rewards of getting higher rating will show more.
Maybe higher rating unlocks transmog insteadâŚ
In other words, best arena gear is available to everyone without any bonus to better players (why give an advantage to better players only to widen the gap??), but there are incentives for getting higher rating.
No RNG rewards
Enough saidâŚIf i want a slot machine or D3 e-slot machine I know where to find one
To be honest I think they didnât expect what happened to PvP in TBC or Wrath. The scene grown and became a thing to be suddenly dropped because of MLG fiasco. MLG didnât want to show arenas because of 24 sec Beastcleave vs MLD game. Then there was 1 Blizzcon in Cata and nothing else. When arenas were at their peak they left them unsupported and basicaly wasted a chance to earn a lot of money in the same way they lost their opportunity with Dota. If they werenât so greedy and agreed for IceFrog terms Dota 2 wouldnât be Valve game. They thought MOBAs have no potential even though at that time more people played Warcraft 3 exclusively for Dota than just for sake of playing Warcraft 3. Then they created their own abomination that in their eyes was fun but not in the eyes of MOBA community and thatâs what happens to Arenas now as well.
People complained that they ignore arenas and wasted arenas potential. They gave it a try and it was successful even though not as successful as it could be in Wrath/Cata. Noone will treat 15 y.o. scene serious when it actually started serioulsy forming at the end of WoD. Also their lans besides Blizzcon are closed for fans. For example last year AWC Summer was in Katowice in Poland. Itâs around 300 km from Warsaw. Iâd go there for sure. I couldnât find any info about it. I emailed Blizzard esports mailbox and I got an info that itâs a closed event. How can you seriously make esports work if there are no fans supporting live. It wonât attract any organisations for longer period of time. There is Method and Splyce, SK gaming, Cloud9, Gosu Crew from time to time. They just hope for lan win and if they donât get it they just end contracts and leave the scene. Boetar said last year that he plays in tournaments only for fun because money is not worth time. Then he is banned for whole season. He says that not for what he said but you never know.
This game currently is not esports viable it lacks depth and complexity. Class design is poor and the fact that live game and tournament realms are completely different environments is just making it laughable. In tourney realm you pick bis azerites, trinkets and other things while we mortals have to deal with farming them playing raids and base our progress on luck. The reason why MOBAs work is that the only thing that matters is your skill and people can relate to pros gameplay and get hyped on their plays. You canât even make 10 top plays of the week compilation from WoW because it would be hard to find 10 impressive clips thanks to class design.
Devs literally have no clue about PvP and they donât treat PvP as a factor during designing process. They just balance things when clownfiesta already happens. PvP is just a side effect of them working on this game. They make tourneys because people love this game mode and want to watch it.
Maybe creating separate game like Dota 2 was made of Warcraft 3 was the way to go back then. Now I think itâs too late and no hope for arena. It will be only worse because noone considers it as important part of the game to be a factor during class/item design process.
They can handle it in PvE, like they want to, but in the PvP aspect of this game, we should be able to play it like any other PvP game.
Lock in, competete, have fun, lock out after 2 hours and be viable by doing so. But a rng gear system and better gear in PvP, is the opposite of this.
Solution: PvP vendor (one for honor and one for conquest points). After that double the damage in PvP and implement a dmg reduction by 50 as set bonus if you wear completely PvP gear.
People who will join with PvE gear will do the same dmg as now, but take double as much as now. Noone would ran around with harbinger.
Anyways, itâs obvious that they donât want it this way, so we probably should move on. ^^
Here i will strongly disagree, HoTS is a pretty fun game which would do much better if released at a better timing - the very same game.
Some people donât want to spend 40-60m playing one MOBA game and solo farming for an eternity.
HoTS is amazing and the developers it had were AWESOME, you canât imagine how responsive they were to their community.
It is totally true they had a diamond in their hands and let is slip and itâs even worse because i feel that the game they delivered is better than the alternatives, but locked behind walls of popularity
How so? If the game was/is such fun and better as the alternatives, how did they slip it? I mean, Blizz is a well known game developing company, pretty sure most of the playerbase of those games have heard of HoTS and probably even tried it.
If it was so good, why did it fail? What happend?
HotS isnât that bad I agree but it had no chance with other hegemons on the scene. Dota 2 games are way shorter now. 30-40 min. is probably a standard game but I ended few in 20 min. 60 min. games are rare unless there is a Techies or Arc Warden in the game but 1st hero has low winrate and second has insanely high skill cap. HotS loses in fact becaus you as unit have less influence on the game. Where in Dota 2 you can carry your games as support by providing great vision and some great support items to save your teammates in HotS you have to rely on your teammates because HotS is great team game. It might work as an esport team based game but for solo ranked experience itâs frustrating. I donât say you donât matter at all but you canât carry 4 âpotatoesâ by doing your job well.
And obviously they released HotS way too late when both League and Dota had established scenes. League gathered some of old Dota community when it was first free MOBA game and Dota 2 gathered the rest Dota players that didnât like LoL changes and they prefered original Dota experience. There was no niche for HotS on the market. It could only attract new players that would like to play MOBA but without MOBA economy. It couldnât work well.
The sad thing is that WoW Arena is the only way to play class based arena game. There is theoretically Bloodline Champions and itâs continuation Battlerite but itâs not quite it. I feel that we are at place where Vanilla community was before Nostalrius drama. I feel that if AT private server would pop now it would give us a chance because Blizzard wouldnât like to lose these players and their money. When WoD popped and private servers were noticed by Blizzard as competition AT was already dead. Maybe some kind of reactivation and part of the community migrating there would make them do something for us finally after all these years. Last time they tried to do something for PvP was creating Ashran and they took their raider approach towards it. We can theoretically count stat templates as other thing but how it killed dueling and world PvP was really bad.
Pruning destroy the balance even further ( if existed ) .
Thatâs the thing. In Wrath, Cata and even MoP weaker specs could work because they were providing buffs or utility to stronger specs that mattered. In late Wrath/MoP you could get high rating with every spec in the game if played right. While now only op broken specs matter. Season 1 - Enh is insanely strong - Turbo is played by every meele team. Warlocks are too squishy and they donât even 1 really viable spec - Walle gets replaced by Maro in top team while he was the most scary warlock at the end of Legion few months ago. Season 2 few nerfs to Enh - noone plays it. Warlocks suddenly pop out on the ladder like mushrooms in the forrest after rainy day. DKs after being horrible in the first season suddenly are gods. Why all these changes happen? Because of raid dpsâŚ
How can you even treat this game as an esport as from god you become noone in matter of few months. Itâs not a MOBA game where you switch from 1 hero to another and itâs all good because you have 10+ hero pool. Players usually have 2-3 classes they can play and probably 3-5 specs in it. When none warlock specs were viable then itâs clear there is something wrong.
Werent all the changes purely based off pvp talents?
Wls got demon armor which gave them plate lvls of armor. For enh both forged lightning and ride the lightning got reworked which was the main reason their dps was so high and dk got raise abomination and deathstrike buffs which made them viable.
Yes thatâs true but in last Legion patch you are a god Affliction/Demo lock. 3 months later you have to play Boomy because Warlock is not viable. Cervantes from unwanted in any team won first tournament he took part in. How can you treat it serious? Your viability depends on raid balancing. Look at Method Orange they won because everything they mained was op. Havoc dealing 12k dps constantly in s1 and mana burn, Boomy hitting for 70 k with Starsurge due to Lively Spirit, R Shaman was literally unkillable and never had to cast. Where are they now?
MOBAs are not RPG games, they might have some RPG elements, but ultimately they are quite different games.
There the player itself is in the front and the game heroes are just different avatars to switch and play between in short sessions.
In RGPs, especially MMOs where you invest sometimes years, a player gets more melted with a certain hero, connected with his ingame avatar and considers it closely a representation of its playstyle, mindset, lore preferences etc.
What this FOTM clownfiesta Brodanyo talks about and I completely agree, due to such extreme imbalances, does, is to destroy the very base of WoW and turns it into something the core base of players that are the most loyal do not want.
Most people want to have one class, even one spec, that is most fun for them, that is always at least good to play and if they experiment, thatâs all good, but being forced to jump specs even classes every season just because balance is horrible is detrimental to the player experience, and once that settles in, a product dies.
Blizzard have become arrogant, design (gameplay wise) incompetence leaks from every corner and the main thing, they have forgotten what the most important question when a designer thinks about a game and has to ask himself is: IS THIS FUN?
(NOTE: donât know why this post went as a reply to Symexx, that was not my intention, but to be a general post in the thread, more in the sense of expanding on Brodanyoâs posts)