Heroic and M0 that is the in between.
Yeah, but if you want a bit of a challenge and a feeling of progression, they’re pointless.
M0 is now M+10. There’s no in between anymore.
Heroic → M0 is insane.
1 Like
Also grinding heroics ain’t gonna teach you mythic mechs, so the problems will still exist in 2s 
1 Like
There’s also not much to grind in heroic when you are 482.
I don’t know, I just healed a nokhud +0 and I’d say it’s fine. M0 is the first non-automated MM difficulty so there’s nothing wrong with having the prospect of failure.
1 Like
Great it is working for you! But for me the gap between heroic and M0 is too big.
Idk if I agree with that.
When you go for the highest reward keys at the start of the season you’re playing with people that were doing well beyond max reward keys previous season.
It’s a lot easier than doing those keys a few weeks into the season when the masses start getting to those key levels due to gear while having nowhere close to the same skill level as the former group.
Like, I’ve attempted +2s that were harder to do than the +10 I did 2 hours after the season started.
Trying to do academy on a entry level key is a complete coin flip whether you can get past the tree boss or not.
Blizzard can’t win to a certain extent.
It’s not something I’d asked for, but we regularly saw discussions where people felt there were too many levels and not enough differences in between those levels.
We also saw lots of people wanting a harder difficulty than M0 with no timer. So they have that now.
Heroic was irrelevant, people complained they had more luck finding Normal runs than Heroics, they’ve again sorted that so it’s more rewarding by changing it.
In addressing those issues they’ve clearly upset others.
To you, and I appreciate you feel that way, I don’t understand at the level you play that it’s an issue but I accept it’s your opinion.
Well, i have 1 unfinished M0, 2 unfinished +2’s and 1 untimed +2. It is just insanely hard after heroic. And i am ~481 ilvl. On a spec i have 1 season experience on and have been running keys up to +17 before (time 16’s).
1 Like
But then you are what overall ~12 ilvls below M0 ? Of course its going to feel hard, if you and your group in general are trying to jump in being that much below.
I’m sure if you guys were at the 487 range overall, you would have a much nicer and easier time in +0 allowing you to slowly climb towards the +2 which you are ~15 ilvls below
1 Like
Yes. And it would be nice to run those below +10 difficulty keys like we had before to slowly learn and get gear. Like we did always before.
I actually felt likt the +2’s i did last night were about the same level as around 18 at the end of last season. So yes, its gonna be hard if you’re not used to playing the spec/role at that level. Did a +4 and it went ok but i cerainly couldn chill as a healer. Tanked 18’s with ease on my druid last season but dont think i’ll try her in keys until the rest is geared enough to carry me 
1 Like
But there is plenty of room to do so. But you want to skip that part. Before you geared up in +2 and slowly progressed, here you can do HCs and then you can slowly get into M0 and then a +2.
Its not like a +2 has a billion different mechanics over a M0, they might have a few, but those you will get the hang of after a run or two.
Right now it would be comparable to you last season wanting to start at a +12 key and making a surprised pikachu face that the bosses kill you for being undergeared
Everyone is going to have untimed keys. It’s the start of the season. We are literally in week one with no gear.
I am not refusing to do so. I did 5 heroics. They are less than old M0 because they do not have mythic mechanics. But after that i have to do M0. And that didnt went well. They are too hard since it is instantly +10.
1 Like
But you are still ~12 ilvls below a M0 ?.. If your group is the same, of course you’ll get punched…
For gods sake we are 2 days into the season, and people are making it seem like they will never progress because they try to do keys 12-15+ ilvls above themselves… Relax, enjoy some HC, master your spec… The mechanics vary, but if you have problems with your spec in general, HC, M0, whatever is a great way to learn your class without also having to learn mechanics ontop
1 Like
The thing is, in heroic you never get in yellow stagger. In M0 you full time jump to purple. The jump is too big. There’s nothing to learn in heroic since it does not hurt and has no mechanics. M0 is old M+10 and that just blasts your char away. Theres nothing to learn in both.
Obviously i am not pikachu-facing. I warned for this when it was announced. I saw this coming as someone who is playing low removed keys a lot. People said it would be fine. and in the end it isn’t fine. And don’t say i am not trying.
1 Like
Then don’t play ig.
My friend is tanking for me and he is getting SLAPPED, but we are both gearing (and relearning the dungeons). We skipped HC and M0 gearing and went straight for M+ because that’s our choice.
People want to skip straight to Mythic plus and then complain I honestly don’t get it. If you aren’t comfortable in M+ then go do the other farm first, if you are comfortable in +2s then go farm them first, if you are comfortable pushing your +2 keys then do that, if you are a high end player (not me) then you are probably already doing +10s.
The more gear you get the easier it becomes to survive. By the time we’ve done a week of gearing through dungeons, raids and for those that do it, PvP and had one vault, we will be feeling much more comfortable than we are this week.
1 Like