The lore is ruined. The ingame communication is ruined. The immersion is ruined. They are heavily anti-PVP.
The entire experience is just stifled and hamstrung by low IQ ideology.
The game literally hangs on via the sunken cost fallacy, and fomo; and th poor people who think it will get better.
It is World of Sunken-fomocraft
WE WANT WAR.
Violence. Death. Betrayal. Gore.
My god WE WANT TO KILL THE ALLIANCE/HORDE.
One of the most fun parts of the game, the animosity toward the other faction, basically doesn’t exist now, because everyone just flies through the air and ignores everyone.
We should be in the dirt, killing eachother.
The fact classic even exists EXPOSES that retail is a FAILURE. This is not Warcraft.
You can be. If you want to complain about the game, or a spec, or any number of things in Trade, people can and do so constantly. What you can’t do is just insult somebody for no reason.
Babes, you can check back for as long as the game has existed to learn that people have always felt the game is anti-PVP. This isn’t anything new.
I mean I’m enjoying it enough? It’s not perfect, but to act as if people are only playing because of all the previous time invested is a bit of a projection.
Technically yes, but Blizzard are really bad at writing the faction war. If they can’t tell a good faction conflict story I’d rather they try something else. Are they necessarily good at doing something else? Maybe not - but to me the faction conflict is either good when it’s good, or game-ruining when it’s terrible.
Lol no. I’ve played both, and they’re very different games - which is to be expected when twenty years has passed. Design philosphies have changed. Mentalities have shifted. Classic is not a replacement for retail, retail is not a replacement for classic, they’re different experiences.
Babe wake up, another WoW has become insert-whatever-issue-craft post just dropped.
I mean, sort of, you have me in the first half, some people have become too sensitive, but you lose me in the second.
World PvP? Yeah no, I’ll pass. Sorry that I preffer not to be annoyed by Stabzhumanz when I am just trying to do some chill questing, I guess I’m too sensitive myself. PvP belongs in BGs and Arenas, or Warmode. People who don’t want to PvP shouldn’t be forced into it.
Its true but nowadays it feels like the game is some kind of totalitarian dictatorship compared to what it was during its peak.
Sure PvP has always been kind of a side note but in its peak WoW had lot more PvP stuff going on and to many people doing raids and getting cool stuff to kill other people in pvp was what was driving us to play the game but sadly the pvp L33T people themselves killed that part of the game by their constant whining that they didn’t want to do any PvE at all so in result they themselves killed PvP while not wanting to do PvE.
Blizzard can write faction wars but they can’t execute it on gameplay side even if their lives was depended on that just look at BFA the story was ok but the 4th war… I have the title but on the gameplay side there was very little actual WAR that was anything more than the same o same o kill bears collect their butts from bears with no rectums.
If classic had more and i mean more of the same but just more and done same way as classic is now i think personally i would ditch modern wow as classic style to me is kind of more fun on the long run from both gameplay and story side as i like the slower more low key spells far more than graphical puke of modern wow and i sure as hell enjoy the simple adventurer story WAY more than being the GOD EMPEROR OF THE ENTIRE MULTIVERSE crap that modern writers diarrhea from their pencils.
This is kinda the fundamental issue with the faction war in my opinion. Because of how integral the factions are for WoW’s systems, even now despite crossfac groups and guidls being added, Blizzard can’t ever progress the story beyond a stalemate. The Alliance can’t win beyond a few skirmishes because it would (justifiably) annoy the Horde players. Likewise, the Horde can win battles, but not wars, because it would result in the Alliance complaining.
So if the stakes are never high, if the chance of anything major happening is pretty much zero - then what’s the point in a faction conflict storyline? If there’s going to be a tale of war, then there should be lives and locales on the line. Fighting for the sake of fighting isn’t appealing to me, but we can’t ever really go beyond it.
Funnily enough this is something a lot of us over on Argent Dawn feel. While the player character can solo an Old God from level 35 and upwards, and kill a titan from about 50+ - the average character from Argent Dawn is like, Joe the soldier with two years of experience and a rusted spear. The desire to be a part of the world rather than the saviour of it is very real.
They’ve done precisely two faction wars in World of Warcraft.
The first, in Mists of Pandaria, was a triumph, that saw the Horde analyse exactly what it was, produced an all time great villain in Garrosh Hellscream and had moments we are still talking about over a decade later.
The second was Battle for Azeroth which was done so badly people now feel ‘Faction Wars are written badly’ when the reality is ‘that faction war was written badly’.
Story around war without large PvP scale open world… is doomed to fail.
And open world PvP died by itself, by all people just spawnkilling, camping bodies. etc.
The “great story” from the wonderfull free open world PvP people are telling endlessly. is fun with years and years which passed. but not sure people locked on their questing, having hard time leaving hell area due to some campers who didn’t even care their victims were grey… Was nothing but fun for them. But it is what was the war… the “killing hord alliance” …
The PvP money is honor, and LOT of PvP activity was a competition to be the less honorable kill it could be. Being frustrated by campers, by greykillers and other similar things is not “being sensitiv” …
Classic exist is a proof retail failed ?
i played vanilla, loved it. played BC, loved it even more. was my favourite part of wow before legion came out. Did i play any vanilla or BC classic ? nope because while i have nostalgic thought about all fun i had, i remember all the non-fun part i had also. . . They are different game, different concept, and different way to think it. simply.
At same time, i regret to not played legion remix (left game after SL leveling, and came back end of january) because yes, if legion classic is, i would probably do a jump in. (also because i miss the legion shadow priest T_T )
I bet if whole Stormwind or Orgrimmar was just a smoking crater with major lore characters actually dead the stakes would feel higher.
Hell to me one of the most annoying thing in WoW has always been the lack of any stakes sure Horde has lost warchiefs and other characters more than Alliance but still it feels there is zero stakes and considering the name of the franchise is Warcraft there is very little actual war and it never really feels there is something lost.
Sure Teldrassil is gone but so what most of the playerbase never hanged out there so its only real value was the nostalgic value for those who played night elfs and its leveling zone other than that who cares.
And as for Undercity its kind of same thing but that place could just be vented with some large fans and its good as the stinking rotten hole it was before it was covered with green fart cloud.
I don’t disagree but it’s difficult for me to be objective about Garrosh these days. For one, I think MoP did kinda throw away his existing character because he went from this genuinely iconic moment;
Garrosh Hellscream says: Overlord Krom'gar, you have disgraced the Horde.
Garrosh Hellscream says: You have brought shame to us as a people.
Garrosh Hellscream says: By my right as Warchief, I hereby relieve you of your duty.
Garrosh picks up Krom'gar by the throat and lifts him over the edge of the lift bridge.
Garrosh Hellscream says: YOU ARE DISMISSED.
To then doing the exact same thing in Theramore just an expansion later. That’s always felt jarring to me, maybe there’s something deliberate in there - how in the pursuit of power Garrosh became the same thing he loathed - but then he still speaks of honour and customs and so on. I agree he’s an iconic villain, but I can’t help but wonder if he was kinda forced to be a villain at the expense of being a more nuanced character.
The other thing making it hard to be objective is how many people glaze Garrosh for being this PEAK MASCULINE IDEAL when like… I dunno. Towards the end, dude was just straight throwing temper tantrums LMAO
Absolutely, but Blizzard would never, and that’s kinda the problem. When the whole thing about a war is the scale and horrors of it, and then the scale and horrors of said war are limited to like… two old cities, that were unused except by us RP crowd, and like two old questing zones? It just underwhelms.
I will say again that this is the Argent Dawner in me talking, but at the very least on our little pocket of Warcraft this is easily in the top five most impactful things on the playerbase here even to this day.
Yeah I recall they admitted that they weren’t joining the dots as well as they should have with Garrosh and that it was the product of a lack of co-ordination.
I thought Garrosh was on course to be an ideal Warchief. One vehemently opposed to the Alliance and happy to challenge them at every opportunity but one who value the entire Horde.
He went a different way. Whilst not the way I would have chosen, he did become Warcraft’s greatest villain since Arthas.
For me that was nuance, and an example of him being a great villain. Garrosh had a deep insecurity over his father, Taran Zhu deliberately pushed that button in their fight. It made Garrosh three dimensional in a way the worst Warcraft villain, the Jailer, was not.
Blizz themselves admitted that that moment was a mistake, a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing, and Garrosh’s “Conquest crazy”-arc was the planned story all along.
To be clear I do think character flaws are a good thing! But I also think Garrosh’s character flaws are often overlooked, the people that are really feral about Garrosh probably don’t even consider his insecurities - it’s always just “big man doing big man things because man good”
And like, yeah, man good, I’m not disputing that - but other things are good too. But yeah, that’s personal bias. I can acknowledge that Garrosh is an iconic villain despite my reservations, once I seperate the character from the fandom it spawned.
Huh, I always thought it was the other way around! And that is kind of a shame, considering how good the ending to the Stonetalon quest was.
I remember someone calling a certain group of sensitive people snowflakes. The person who made that comment was a sociopath. We really don’t need a world around us where someone is just a toxic person with some bad childhood using a game to apply their well-hidden sadism or something. It’s about decency and respect even if we fight against each other. I don’t need some toxic, unhinged people to be swearing at me or swearing at anyone, shouting at people and doing whatever unhealthy nonsense that doesn’t come across as unhealthy to their trauma-distorted mind. And call me whatever you want.
It was the one single time Garrosh did anything honourable, everything else was a string of pulling super-weapons out of his… you know, no matter how foul and/or destructive, as long as it killed people, the only surprise of it all was Blizz admitting to that one questline being the mistake.
The thing is that made Garrosh memorable character unlike 99% of other wows main lore characters that most people do not even remember or care who they are.
In a game called WARcraft nobody gives a flying fudge about Tauren “leader” who just is there and then on one expansion sits in a corner being sad.
