I was loving the return of a lot of spells but then my dreams where instantly removed when not only did you state Retribution wouldn’t be losing Holy Power but Protection and Holy would be gaining holy Power.
Holy Power i.e Combo Point system does not feel good when the class has huge downtime and is a slow spec.
Holy Power i.e Combo Point system does not feel like Paladin fantasy at all.
Holy Power i.e Combo Point system has never been liked with the most prefered version of Paladin being Wrath of the lich King.
Please rethink this.
SOME ADDITIONS:
Holy Power felt fine during Mist of Pandaria and Warlords of Draenor due to the tool kit of the Paladin.
When Legion landed and Empowered Seals, Auras, Divine Protection, Long Arm of the Law and Emancipate was removed, and the Class direction was changed. Change to it’s current incarnation which is LOW mobility and HARD hitting, however due to them continuing the Holy Power and Avenging Wrath design, It has made the class either underpowered or overpowered and i entirely believe this is 100000% due to Holy Power.
Holy Power is a builder / spender resource, meaning we have to contact the enemy to build up holy power using weaker spells, then unleash our heavy hitter. This wasn’t a problem given the amount of range and mobility tools we have in Mop/Wod so Holy Power didn’t feel that bad during this time.
Avenging Wrath is our big boy cool-down however, due to the amount of mobility and range spells in MOP/WOD, Avenging Wrath was powerful but not i’ll take 70% your health in a single empowered Templar Verdict, however due to the pruning of mobility / range spells, and the overall direction of Holy Power now being stronger finisher and weaker builders. Avenging Wrath with the Holy Power build becomes too powerful, and often is nerfed to the point where Retribution is now unviable outside of Avenging Wrath, or are overpowered during Avenging Wrath.
The simplest change would be to SWAP the pruning. Return Seals, Emancipate, Auras, Range spells and mobility like Long Arm of the Law and prune Holy Power. then we have a complete class that won’t explode enemies or be exploded by enemies due to the classes weakness.
You’re going to get some people who will say Holy Power is great.
However, majority of people posting here on EU and on the US forums (as well as non-Blizzard forums) have stated how much they dislike it. Only reason they give Holy Power back to Protection/Holy is because we’re going to have more shared abilities and Blizzard couldn’t think of a way to make it work Holy Power and non-Holy Power specs.
Posted this in another thread as well;
There is a thread in the general discussion, if you want your voice to be heared (or atleast if you want your voice to stand a chance of being heared) https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/shadowlands-class-updates/
I don’t like the holy power returning for Prot at the very least, but I can’t speak for other specs
If people want their voice to be heared, anti HP or pro HP, this thread is probably the best way to do that through
Most Rets hate it too. Let’s not dilute ourselves and stand as one for once. You want Holy Power to be removed for Prot or Holy. We want it to be removed for Rets as well. Please don’t go around asking for it to be removed for Prots only. Stand together, and ask it to be removed for all 3 specs. As one, our voices is louder.
I’m not asking it to get it gone for prot exclusively, I’m just stating that from my very limited frame of reference of playing basically exclusively prot.
If I started to make a call for ret, that would not be genuine because I do not play ret, if you say you don’t like it then I fully support you in voicing that concern
Anyway, if you havn’t already make sure you voice your concerns in the thread I linked too, they’re more likely to read all in that one thread then scout several forums for possible opinions.
You can never go out of your way to say explicitly that Holy Power is great. At the most you can say it’s ok. But to focus on this thing like it’s useful or an integral part of the game is yet another sign of how out of touch the current game developers truly are. Who gives a frick about Holy Power? When you think about it, it’s more of a limitation than anything, because if they used a mana pool, they would be able to spam skill indefinitely as mana is currently a resource that is infinite.
Let’s make this thread known and visibly active by interacting here, I’d say.
After seeing the class changes which have been datamined (holy avenger & AW on 3 minute cooldown both), I think holy power is not that good of a thing overall. Infusion of light literally got reversed and paladins are an utter wreck in PvP I’d sense.
It does not get much sense to -need- to play with holy power like there’s no tomorrow, I’d like to think.
I think protection paladins have a right to complain about HP, as it was never done well for them. However Ret and Holy have had great patches/expansions with it. But holy power was not the only factor about them being good. For example if Holy gets eternal flame back, it will be all worth it.
The introduction of Holy Power was a breath of fresh air back in Cataclysm - happy to see it back.
Don’t make assumptions about the majority of the playerbase just because you personally dislike it. There is an extremely small vocal minority posting negatively about it but that does not constitute there being a widespread hate for it. All the feedback I am hearing is that it sounds exciting to get it back.
Don’t make assumptions about the majority of the playerbase just because you personally like it. There is an extremely small vocal minority posting positively about it but that does not constitute there being a widespread love for it.
Could youuu perhaps show some kind of graph or whatever about the majority liking it?
Because right now we don’t have that, so we don’t know what the “majority” thinks. What we do have are those posting on the forums and it’s clearly a lot more who dislikes it.
Why would I provide a graph or something else to prove something I have not claimed to be the case?
I am literally telling people to not make assumptions about the majority because having a vocal minority on forums does not constitute a majority of players. Read again.
Likes confirm it. Damn I wish those people who think people “whining” on forums are a minority. When it gets to a point that someone is making a forum post, it’s kinda a big deal and they immediately over power those that are silent. And that they voice their concerns publicly must also be because they had experience where others thought the same.
And then some basement dwelling, pet collecting, heroic dungeon playing noob comes around and praises a sh.itty system that nobody likes just because they want to be a nice supporter of Blizzard and everything they do. Hey, sometimes you don’t matter buddy.
Whats the problem with holy power? Wouldnt ret be just even more “whack a mole?”
The changes ive seen so far got all specs seem amazing. Actual unpruning happening. Wake of ashes baseline, hammer of wrath baseline, consecrate baseline. All the good stuff
Im genuinely asking as a non ret main, why is holy power considered bad? And pls dont just say " its clunky". Like what would be the alternative? Templars verdict gets a cd?
So, remove paladin kick , just like in Wrath ?
And make his rotation able to mana starve , just like in Wrath ?
Get more haste, and play the ret wack-a-mole game and be happy with your big damage.
[Judgement]-> [Crusader Strike] -> [Divine Storm] -> [Consecration]-> [Exorcism] Is this a good rotation ?
Ret has never been better than legion/bfa. And people seem to think ret was cool during wrath, because ret dps was rather overtuned.
If ret loses HP, you could do a one button top rotation macro. Just like in wrath.
Problem for ret is how slow of a class it is, without that bottom line 20% haste.
Because it’s a builder-spender locked by gdc unlike any other spec, which leads to huge downtimes when everything is on cd.
Plus it’s a proc heavy system, which is something you absolutely do not want when tanking or healing, you want reliability and planning, not random procs.
Not to mention the other tiny changes that they made, like having wog and sotr on holy power, which means one or the other up, not both.
This was not always the case. If we get holy power, but the builders feel good to use, then the only flaw you pointed out would be fixed. Its not the existence of holy power by default that made the system bad, it was how it was implemented in BfA.
HP can work only for ret, and by preach video, seems that the extra abilites fills the gap, so it can work.
It’s really really bad for prot, we are already in weakspot as tank due to consacration being a pain when kiting and i don’t see them having changed that, if we are also locked into a builder spender where we have to choose between sotr or heal ourself (while now lotp is a solid filler for having no charges) we will drop even more down the ranks.
Bfa prot is fine, we only needed consacration linked to our feet and not to a spot on the ground, like an aura, and we would have been perfect.
Why they always have to reinvent the wheel is a mistery
I agree. It was never done well for Protection. Not in Cata, not in Mop and not in WoD.
However holy has also had good experiences with it, with WoD being the peak of it. So I think people are making the wrong protest. There is nothing inherently wrong with holy power for any spec, its all about how its implemented. Prot needs less GCD on it for example, since holy power and GCD would be too much restriction on your tank abilities.