Should old raids be reworked?

Content gets obsolete, get over it. Even BfA raids aside the last one are obsolete. There is BT timewalking, Ulduar and so on. There is Classic and I hope we get Classic TBC, WoTLK and so on.

They can use LFR for the expansion raids and thus making them less forgotten. But that something that new players won’t see unless they level alts as first character will go BfA into Shadowlands.

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Which is excactly what they want to work against in Shadowlands, by making you able to level in each Expansion zone from 1-50.
The whole point is to bring life back to older content. So why shouldnt the Raids be included?
I mean, give me one good reason that is not pure “I did it back then, noone else deserves to do it now!” elitism…

They can use the lfr system, but that expansion based leveling is for alts only. New players go to BfA and then Shadowlands.

You will never get a full raid together unless you already queue with a full group, and even that will be impossible if you are not in a guild that plays specificly for the sake of old raids…

Seriously, whats with that exclusivism attitude.

Why do you want to keep such well worked on content dead? What do you gain from it? Or is it really just your ego and you just want to feel great that you could do it and others dont deserve the whole story?

Seriously, we are talking about a change that will not affect you or any other Raider in any way. Most likely you wouldnt even notice the change at all. It takes nothing away from you, it doesnt lower any achievement you got or anything.
All it does is to add more content to the older zones.

I think just enabling TW for all old raids would be enough, as long as they could be normally queued for or manually entered, instead of having to go to a specific NPC.

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I’m curious about how many people run the TW raids, given that they’re nowhere near as easy to queue for as the TW dungeons. Having to have a premade group and go out of your way to find a specific NPC to queue would (I assume) put people off participating in them. I’ve only done Black Temple TW once and Ulduar not at all.

As someone who started raiding in Legion, I’ve never properly run any of the older raids. Where raids directly link into the story of an expansion/zone, it would be great if players levelling in that zone had an opportunity to experience the content and finish the story, rather than leaving it unfinished. At the moment it’s a case of “come back once you’ve massively outlevelled this area and completely forgotten the story”

I like your idea. Seems more dignified than just solely serving as transmog runs.
The challenge, I imagine, would be in how they balanced it. You wouldn’t want it to be the superior alternative to questing for example. I know blizzard doesn’t like the idea of people running dungeons exclusively, so I’m pretty sure they’d agree with that.

Also, bit of a side-note, but the raids of WoD were not what people took issue with for that expansion.

If there’s the OPTION for that, sure. I wouldn’t do them myself, but why not have the option for those who’d like that.
But… If it would replace the transmog runs and such, no; very very bad idea.

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They can give a solo punching bag dressed as Arthas and then play the cinematic. You seen the content, problem solved. Old content can be shown but nit recreated as it was without making it as it was.

People were doing TW dungeons this week as the queue was ok’ish. Same with aniversary raid and stuff. People were not doing obsolete BfA stuff like normal dungeons or previous tier lfr raids as the queues were close to infinity. Your single player raid would have to give a lot of exp or lots of free loot.

Looking at your armory it looks like it’s you that is excluding yourself from the content. You don’t want old raids revitalized and viable even at LFR level because “no players”… Yet you want single player brainless island expedition so that bad and lazy can pretend they “did the raid”.

So if you say there isn’t enough players for LFR ICC then we should dumb down original content and pretend it’s the original? At best it’s a scenario that you can’t fail, where NPC will heal the dragon for you, where NPC will freeze viscidous for you etc.

There is nothing wrong with such scenarios, just don’t expect raid level rewards, acomplishnents and overall feel of them.

Seriosuly dude, what is wrong with you?

Honestly, reading your post it feels like you are afraid that you might srink when people can do old content…
YOu talk about raiding as if its some kind of super awesome achievement that makes you special… Which, honestly, is kinda sad…

I mean, you seriously took the time to watch my armory just to try to put yourself on a pedestal over me, when this has nothing to do with the topic?

Dude… seriously… thats just sad…

The only problem I have with old raids IS the way legacy buff system “working” for old raids (for transmog runs on Mythic difficulty). Currently you have to be 11 lvls higher than the instance you’re doing to get the legacy buff. Not only this is annoying on its own to wait for like 2 expansions to effectively solo an old raid, there is also the Mythic lockout system and these raids also still require to do mechanics for some time.

So if you’re try to do them with some rather high iLvl group and try to outgear, wipe and group disbands you get locked out rest of the week for nothing unless you started the group. Sure, it’s possible to get a group of people who know what they’re doing but that’s not always possible and you need to take whoever applies if you hope to fill up the group.

This is not fun at all - it’s pointless and annoying, I mean whats the point of making people wait (for like 2 expansions to be 11 lvl higher than the instance) just to get some transmog. Which is in fact beyond obselete as gear (upgrade wise) as soon as that tier is a previous tier. So basically a Raid/Instance SHOULD become SOLOABLE as soon as it’s 2 tiers old at maximum, not 2 expansions.

Or it would make more sense if the legacy buff was tied to having average iLvl of player/group (let’s say 20-30 iLvl) higher than the Raid drops.

People that farmed Ashes or Alar, Invisible or completed their mog collections spent months if not years clearing old raid and dungeon instances to achieve it - so yes, it’s special and you have no right to devalue that, no one has.

A person is suggesting to do raids while leveling but not as raids but as super simplified class agnostic scenarios - that makes people wonder what’s the agenda of the topic author?. If you like scenarios that’s fine, but people are often greedy and like to ask for things that fit their personal agenda. In your case it may be:

  • I don’t do content X so content X can be devalued, replaced, ignored…
  • I want to farm rare collectible stuff without a raid lockout, maybe even with guaranteed drops
  • I don’t play the game but I’m the most competent person to make and design this game as it should be

Raid mechanics are usually made so that multiple players have to perform them. If you decrease their complexity then it’s a dungeon, then it’s a scenario and those aren’t raids and should not grant the benefits of a raid (rare collectibles, achievements, resources, titles etc.) nor should they reward loot as good as when performed by a raid group in an not-nerfed raid instance (more difficult content = better rewards).

If a raid is required to complete for a storyline progression then, sure, a scenario to help with that while leveling could be used if there isn’t enough players to have LFR system running. Also a narrative scenario could be used to tell the history of a raid tier, like Ion could talk about AQ40 and mathematically impossible C’Thun as back then he was the player that made those calculations. However such scenario should not grant you benefits that others had to put way more time to get.

yeah i would absolutely hate being not able to farm old raids on my own anymore. maybe give them the option to either solo them like we are used to or queue up for as group or whatever. :woman_shrugging:

It would take a lot of work to do that.
Rescalling all the bosses, reworking mechanics.
Making the EXP actually worth attending but not so high that it makes it essential.
Can’t be a faceroll but also can’t be too hard.

Not worth it in my opinion.

You are wrong in one thing, turning in raids into one player scenarios or dungeons wont devaluate any old raid for one simple reason, is impossible for old raids to be easier. Any raid from vanilla to WOD can be solo and almost every boss die in one hit. Is easy to asume that any specific change made would require more than one hit, so that means even if it just requires two hits it will 2x times “harder” compared to the corrently “difficulty” that is almost the same harder as killing a level 1 bear.

Yet that is how currently old raids works, people kill arthas in one hit and they can earn achievements, transmog, titles and mounts.

You still have raid lockout and can’t redo it. Scenarios don’t have lockouts as of now and dungeons have varying lockouts.

So what? LFR does not have lockout to repeat the content yet it is impossible to receive any reward after the second kill of any boss. Why do you assume any raid turned into dungeon will allow people to earn a mount more than one time a week?

You also forgot that most people have multiple alts, if anyone want to kill one boss multiple times per week what do you expect is more probable, they will kill the boss with the same character in a harder 1-5 dungeon/scenario? Or maybe they will kill the same boss with one hit with multiple level 120 character?

Any option or doing old content for leveling purposes only have two benefic, earn experience while leveling and enjoying the proper encounters because at least it wil be harder than killing the boss with one hit. Experience and fun, that is the only things why this system will worth for players to do it.

It wont devaluate anything from old raids by the mere fact this system will make raids harder, it will take more time to do it, so anyone who want to just farm a mount will play just like today.

Adaptin raid solo should be possible because currently does raids are soloable, is a fact, but to have solo raids be challenging it could be harder because maybe some classes require 10 levels more than the dungeon and other classes require 20 levels to just solo, and maybe there could be some encounters that have other requirements and maybe no one could solo before being 20 levels.

For this, the only possible solution I can think is to just use scaling and let people choose what level to reduce their character. There is on the simple fact, in general, it is not possible to solo any dungeon or raid in the appropriate level it was designed, even with BFA skills and talents, and in general any raid up until WOD and any dungeon up until Legion it is pathetically easy for level 120 characters.

That means it is obvious that between the original level and level 120 there is one point where those dungeons and raids should be possible to solo and challenging at the same time. The only problem is to find that value, it is not feasible even for Blizzard because it varies per class, per spec and even per bosses.

Just let players find it, allow players to reduce their own level between 60 and 120 to do old content and then show in those old rads the % of people who complete it solo with a level equal or bellow the player choosen level and the expect of the player.

For example if I go to the BT they tell me 100% of Retribution Paladins can complete all the encounters with levels between 100 and 120. Only 60% completed it with level 90 or lower (it indicates it is not trivial) and 25% complete it with 80 or lower (so it could mean is hard) and only 5% did it at level 75 (maybe is too hard). Is up to me to go easy mode at level 120 and try it making it more challening by reducing my level.

Given that a system like this wont be in game before Shadowlands it should means to allow players to choose their level between the Shadowland equivalent of level 60 and max level. For example between 25 and 60.

If something becomes a dungeon then you can ask what’s the lockout. Lot of people would be keen to see it as 5/h so they could farm more.

It’s a simple rule of a change proposed by players - become the devils advocate and discover unspoken, not anticipated and worst case scenarios given change could give.

So when meddling with old raids and loot questions about increased farm opportunities arise. If a WoD raid boss gives like 2k gold/weekly lockout and it gets converter to a 5/h dungeon boss without fixing all the gaps you get 10k gold per hour farm, more if more bosses would be converted. Or 5/h Ashes of alar farming… Redoing old raids can have significant consequences.

I have not said people should be allowed to have acces to loot mounts and special things. In fact no one has said it. So then because I do not want that, you do not want that, no one has asked for that… So that means you’re only problem is that mounts should not be lotable? Then sure, not allow mounts in dungeon version of mounts. If you only problem is something that no one wants and even something that have a solution that means youre problem is not actually real.

And the gold farming is not even worth to considered. Even if this could mean easy gold (i doubt that anyway) Blizzard will just nerf it. It wont happen