I apologize immediately, but for some reason I can’t leave feedback in the attached topic, so I had to create a new topic.
Blizzard, please bring back the stun from “Between the eyes”. As a Outlaw rogue player who has climbed above the 2.2-2.4 + arena rating every season (Yes, it may not be that high), but I know and understand what I’m talking about. Crowd Control is the only (I’ll say it again), only strong point of Outlaw rogue in PvP. All the wins were achieved mainly by stun from “Between the eyes”. This ability allowed us to exert pressure. I know you want to go back closer to the origins of each class, but have you tried playing in PvP with a “Kidney Shot” instead of “Between the eyes”?. I am sure you will find many disadvantages and no advantages. And the most important thing, the most important thing I wanted to say to all of this… With this small change, you will simply kill the uniqueness that made Outlaw rogue really special and memorable (not only in PvP, but also in PvE). This is the most important change in PvP for Outlaw that you are going to make, and so I ask you to think carefully again about what you are going to do.
Blizzard, please fix the “Control is King” PvP-talent bug. I wrote many times about this bug on retail and ptr and nothing. This talent should extend your “Adrenaline rush”, but it replaces your 20 seconds “Aadrenaline rush” by 3 seconds. If I use “Adrenaline rush” in the arena, I get 20 seconds of this buff, and then if I give a stun, the “Control is King” talent is triggered, and instead of 23 seconds of the buff, I get 3 seconds. It wasn’t very fun to play all BFA and I hope we are don’t see this bug in Shadowlands.
Blizzard, why can’t I share with my arena teammates a phial from the PvP talent “Drink Up Me Hearties”? I really can’t find a logical explanation for this. First of all, “Drink Up Me Hearties” is an analog of the warlock’s stone, but warlocks can share their stone. Secondly, “Drink Up Me Hearties” is a PvP-talent? Yes. Does the name and description of a talent mean that I can share it? Yes. But I can’t This is completely illogical.
I agree with you, without BtE as stun gameplay becomes boring and loses a rhythm of balanced rotation. Starting a fight we need to spent combo points on
-Roll the bones
-Slice and dice
-Between the eyes
And then, we can make some damage, how did you come up with this? There is no logic, but with range stun, i think, all things with outlaw would be ok.
I am the grate fun of this spec, as a creator of this post i think, And a current gameplay of outlaw is the the only reason for me to pay for this game.Please Blizzard, don’t mess up it. Sorry for my primitive Eng.
I hope blizzard at least read eu forum.
I can only talk from m+ point of the view, bte range stun was rly useful on certain dungeons and weeks but completly bad on sanguine weeks and hated because was messing our dr on adds that have to be stoped casting. So personaly i like more kidney.
Yeah, removing a major finisher like Between the Eyes and prioritizing other ‘buff dps with small percentage on chance trigger’ skills/talents make Outlaw rogue become just another spreadsheet-statistics crunch dps class instead of being the actually original, believable class it has become when Outlaw spec was implemented.
For the first time in Wow, the combat spec had an actual theme and meaning, actually becoming like an entire class to itself. ‘The Outlaw’. Or, the Swashbuckler.
Now it seems that with this patch they have practically killed off that vibe and fluid play in order to appease raiding minmaxers. Now people will be able to see higher dps percentages by maintaining 3-4 different random buffs (how engaging!) and ‘achieving’ to see a few percent change in their overall dps output after a raid.
My god what joy, what entertainment. Its as fun as managing multiple financial excel spreadsheets!!!
Of course, this is without mentioning how removing the stun of this major finisher gimps the class greatly in pvp. For the first time this spec was a spec with a unique and fluid gameplay in pvp and was able to hold its own well - instead of being the ‘hey let me pump adrenaline rush two times to spam hits on a stunned target’ Combat spec past which was practically useless when you used your CDs up. Leave aside absolutely without any flow or themed gameplay.
Its amazing how major corporations eventually move to kill off great stuff which they come up with. Like how Disney squandered Finn, killed Captain Phasma, L3-37, K-2SO.
Though Blizzard does a very good job for the majority of class design, in this case they did a minor Disney - they came up with a spec which was so much well designed and themed that it could actually could be a class in itself. And they moved to just gimp it.
But all things said, thank god they do a good job in general.
Whooops. I take it back. After seeing all the skill and talent changes after logging in, i definitely can say that they screwed up Outlaw gameplay for good. Changes seem to have turned the entire spec into a bunch of skill and talent combos which revolve around giving 5-10% boost to your dps, haste and stuff. Relying on random chance triggers that trigger on other random chance triggers and stuff to boot.
How fun, to maximize the output of randomly connected, in-game excel spreadsheets by managing 5-6 different minor boosts at the same time!
The “unpruning” for Outlaw has yielded poor results. Slice and Dice and Roll the Bones do not feel good together.
To summarize these abilities, they are:
SND: a buff you apply on yourself to increase your damage.
RTB: a buff you apply on yourself to increase your damage.
They function differently, but their purpose is pretty much the same, which is why SND was excellent as a replacement talent for those who did not enjoy the random nature of RTB. I don’t see how this is good game design.
SnS was my way out of that hated RtB thing that made the rogue unreliable. So the change to force me to RtB on outlaw basically deleted that spec choice from my list. It’s a bit sad, because I liked it, but since there are plenty more.
Sadly, assassination is more or less “watching buffbars”, now with one more and I never wanted a shadowmagician. =) I guess different class than my (since vanilla) rogue.
Losing the Between the Eyes stun ruined Outlaw Rogue. It basically auto deletes you from PVP and removes a large part of the class fantasy of being a dirty fighter using underhanded tricks. Outlaw Rogue was great because of the mid range capabilites and the excellent crowd control. I’d give up Kidney Shot a thousand times over just to get the Between the Eyes stun back. Are you listening Blizzard? You just ruined a spec by ruining the one of most defining abilities of Outlaw Rogue. Go sit in a corner and be very ashamed of yourself.
At least, they could move BtE stun to talents, or pvp talents. Even for world quests and leveling/questing i was amply using BtE stun. Now that it is gone and the damage is gimped, i am getting frequently killed while questing in WoD. This also disrupted the pve balance of class in favor of raiders.
I cant understand why such raid issues be left to raiders to solve. Or talents introduced to fix it. Ie, why not put a talent to remove stun from BtE and turn it to what it is now instead of gimping BtE for everyone. There are various weak/filler talents in outlaw talent list anyway.
Replace “raiders” with min/maxers. Although there’s a large overlap between the two groups, most raiders who follow the min/max meta hivemind only do so because they mindlessly follow 1% min/maxers without even thinking about it. Most people are followers. Or as Nietzsche put it, those who live according to a slave morality. It’s the 1% I’d blame the most because they scream the loudest and get the masses on their side that way.
Besides that I’d settle for a BtE stun talent or pvp talent. But only barely.
Yeah, i just didnt want to criticize people because of their tastes. If they want to minmax, Blizz should let them minmax. But they should also let others do their thing as well.
Definitely they shouldnt break my gameplay while fixing a problem for a certain segment. A problem which did not affect me. I really dont care if BtE stun creates problematic situations in which minmaxing raid tactics get hampered in a minute fashion. Let those who are affected get around it, but let me have my own gameplay as well.
I hate slice and dice i have always hated that to me maintaining some buff that doesn’t give anything but little bit of secondary stat have always been boring and makes gameplay of the class that has those completely unappealing to me.
I would be ok with either snd or rtb but having both just makes the spec like a chore to play.
Then get rid of RtB. Too much RNG for my taste. And bring back the BtE stun. I’m willing to give up Kidney Shot for that. Or perhaps keep Kidney Shot and turn BtE into a normal ranged stun ability instead of a finisher move. Just put the stun back where it belongs. I’d even settle for keeping both RtB and SnD if I can get my BtE stun back.
I understand. I’m also fine with people min/maxing. But once they make their problem my problem they can shove their problem where the sun doesn’t shine.
RtB sounds fun on paper and from class/spec fantasy point but in use its always been like a chore personally i never liked SnD either but having both i don’t even want to play the spec.
And i agree without that stun outlaw is just boring and annoying to play.
Huh, lot of hate there…
From my perspective, the people who say something is broke, or should be changed is usually the 1%, and they’re the people who will be least impacted by what is broke ^^
But they sure get blamed when shyt hits the fan 2 months later by the people who said everything was gonna be fine.
Because it’s generally the 1% who complain the most about pretty much everything. Can’t down a boss in 50 seconds instead of 55 seconds? The 1% screams fire, murder and disaster. Can’t squeeze out 1% of extra damage? The 1% demands everything and everyone to be catered to that single 1% extra damage. Not saying other groups of people don’t complain about stupid things and demand nonsense changes to things that were already fine to begin with. But from my perspective the 1% is much more vocal and tend to expect any and all to kneel before them. For they are Gods of the Game and they have achieved the pinnacle of everything. Avatars of pure perfecion. Everyone and everything should follow their example, which is absolute and eternal. From my point of view they can shove their 1% extra damage where the sun doesn’t shine.
This is completely illogical.