SL PvP vendors are not good enough

You have a point there, although, when better systems exist from the past, I don’t see why we should revert to the more annoying one.

By “consensus” I was referring to Ion’s statement about the confusing aspect of having more sets for different purposes, but it’s a flawed argument because resilience and pvp power would also cause that. It’s entirely personal when i say that I don’t want to see that return, but it’s still better than what we have now, for sure.

Systemlands pvp vendors are there just for one reason - greasing honey around mouth for pvp players to make them shut up for a while
nothing will change with them … they wont bring fair gearing system and you will see after release
everything will go back to BFAs gearing standards (2 months non-stop PVE to actually play PVP content which is the one and only reason you play this game)

cant wait to be forced again to play those braindead PVE dungs with same mechanic, same everything

and btw if someone is arguing “i dont want another separated set for pvp / pve” … go log into game open your bag and you will find 3 or more sets depends on class you play and etc. (example for monkeys - i play rog i have haste / crit / azertie gear for pve … now i want to do pvp… i switch to vers / haste / azerite gear… and BAM thats already 2 sets)

5 Likes

Think about it going forward, and not with the current mess in mind. :yum:

In Shadowlands the gear is just gear.

There are no Corruption effects.
No Azerite Traits.
No Warforging or Titanforging.

It’s just plain stats.

And in that environment, you’ll really just want to get gear with high item level first and foremost, and then the proper secondary stats afterward.

A PvP vendor can provide that just as well as a raid instance. Allegedly.

Anyone who’s comitted to this aspect of the game in the past will very quickly see past that.

Yep, already covered this.

6 Likes

item level is the primary concern, i’d say. if the ilvl brackets are anything like bfa, only a tiny minority of high rated pvpers will be able to get high item level gear from pvp. for the overwhelming majority, as well as the alts of higher rated players, you’re in a position where the gear you acquire from pve has a much higher ilvl.

this puts you in a position where you either choose to only gear by pvp, which puts you far behind, or you do the pve grind. your opponents will have done it.

it is not fair for average pvp players to get crushed in pvp just because they do not want to farm mythic+ for their gear. for me, it makes me not play my alts. i am okay with being a little behind on my alts, but i want to be able to jump in and play some casual arena without having to jump through a bunch of hoops first. in legion, i played so many characters casually in pvp. in wod and mop as well. in bfa, absolutely not. it sucks to be massively undergeared, it’s not fun.

at a higher level where you do get good item level, wrong stats is still a problem. if all i can get from pvp is a crit mastery ring, and i can get a vers mastery one from a dungeon, you bet i’m going to be farming that dungeon. my opponents will have put in that level of effort.

10 Likes

I’m sorry that you find pvp vendors inadequate.

But this game is generally designed as a PVE game. So while there are being more pvp based gears and methods of obtaining them added to the game, the playstyle is still fundamentally more PVE based.

Don’t expect it to change. The team is already neck deep in all sorts of balancing issues that are about to arrive with covenants and soulbinds. Adding new sets of stats to the mix for pvp’s sake, will make you all much much more annoyed than not having them.

I still don’t know exactly how the PvP vendor will work out in regards to Conquest point acquisition, cost of items, cost of upgrades, and access to either.

If you are generous with your assumptions, then the PvP vendor can be a very viable path of gear progression.

If you’re more pessimistic with your assumptions, then the PvP vendor can be all but a minor supplement to what’s otherwise a path of PvE gear progression in Dungeons and Raids.

Too much still resides on this:

And my only point is that it’s still too soon to make any real conclusions, because we just don’t know yet.

There’s a little bit that can be said so far, like we know players will have to do some Torghast in order to acquire the legendary item(s).

I get the fear that some people have, that this can turn out really bad and PvP design can end up being a disaster. But I think it’s a bit bold to conclude that already. Too many ifs.

2 Likes

This is perfectly ok. People who dominate the entire game are entitled to dominate pvp as well. However, I think the reverse should happen, too, and people who choose to invest in pvp should be entitled to a pve advantage.

You’re comparing your ideal gearing system to corruption right now. You argue that something isn’t a problem because you already do it with corruptions, yet somehow this is a compelling argument because it comes from someone on youtube.

i really don’t agree with this, but it is pretty commonly said in regards to pvp. it’s refreshing to see it being said the other way as well, though. i’m well aware of how my fellow raiders would react if you needed to reach 2200 in 3s to get enough gear to make a dps check or get an orange prase.

it’s improbable that you want the same stats in pvp and pve. haste is more powerful than usual in pvp for casters, vers is more powerful for everyone and crit is much weaker.

9 Likes

Oh so the argument the youtube made is irrelevant because the goalpost can be moved in order to prove his point regardless.
Also there’s a massive difference between being optimal in both game modes and balancing the game around an extra stat. Obviously you can’t prevent people from using 2 sets but the goal Ion was talking about is to make the game feel somewhat playable at entry and mid levels.

The issue is that there is no such thing as “getting better at PvP” anymore. PvP is 100% gear at the moment. A C tier player has no issues defeating an A tier in PvP when he outgears him. I used to be able to defeat better geared players because I knew what I was doing and because I was better at PvP. That is no longer possible.

I shouldn’t need to get better at PvE if I want to get better in PvP.

9 Likes

I totally agree that gear is too powerful these days. But also that classes have become too simple and each spec lacks variety. I kinda want the old talent system back, not because “hurr durr comlpexity” but because to an extend it allowed you to mix and match from different specs, which allowed you to potentially have some aces up your sleeve.

Sadly, I don’t think the gear power gap is gonna go away. It is definitely harmful to the game. In BFA each season held more or less an entire expansion’s worth of power. We started with 305 ilvl and now we are getting to 480+. This is insane. I have more than 5 times more HP than someone who just dinged 120. And I’d be fine if it was double the HP. But 5 times? Gear is too much.

3 Likes

Not sure why there isn’t a gear scaling system in place either.

I disagree, but we can talk nuance.
As I said already, I don’t think gear from one or the other scene should be useless. If you’re a mythic raider, then yes, you should have an advantage with your gear over basic ‘honor’ farming scrubs in a random bg, for sure, but competitive arena players? Hell no.

I am all in favour of bringing back a PVP stat!!!

I prefer when PvE and PvP gearing are completely separate and no use in the other.

12 Likes

this whole issue boils down to Blizzard once again not understanding what their players want or misinterpreting it.

they probably scanned the forums for words and found that “PvP Vendor” or something came up a lot and so they are adding one in Shadowlands.

the real problem of people having to do a lot of PvE in order to compete in PvP still stands, this only wasn’t a problem in older expansions because we had PvP only stats or gear scaling like in WoD (not in Legion).

the only complaint I often see against this seems to be that it took to long to farm those “extra sets of gear”, which is a strait up lie when comparing it with now, I famed those sets every season with multiple chars and I never had the feeling of it taking too long and on top of that you were still doing PvP and not something entirely different.

Blizzard really needs to step up their game when it comes to understanding player feedback.

2 Likes

Personally I think the issue is that ilvl reward does not correlate to difficulty in PvP. Because difficulty in PvP is an abstract concept, a battleground is as easy or as hard as the players and circumstances that are in it, rated or not. PvP doesn’t “get easier” as people get more gear in the same way that raids or keys do. It’s just a completely separate aspect of the game.

Personally I don’t like PvP specific stats though, because as a spec that really wanted specific stats to feel good, having to give that up at times to get stats specifically for PvP did not feel good.

I miss WoD gear man.

3 Likes

Blizzard, let me play my damn game. It’s why I am paying you. No one cares that PvE players can achieve a dps check on a scripted oversized mob week after week and grind so they could kill said oversized mob faster several months in the current patch.

Bring us back resilience or pvp power or see another “Nostalrius” (but this time for WOTLK or MOP era) rise as people flock to private servers.

You reap what you sow and right now I’m seeing you reap a lot of unsubs and unhappy players.

1 Like

To be fair, there was a lot of talk about bringing pvp vendors back, but not nearly so much talk about what they’d sell/currency etc. Maybe we should’ve made more noise about pvp vendors selling gear with a new pvp stat.

2 Likes