Let me just clarify. I was being sarcastic in that post. I have absolutely no desire to see, or wish to play, Blood Elf Druids. I like my Tuatha de Danaan style Elves as they are… They’re just fine right now 
Oh no need, I know your stance on Belf from your posts. I’m kind of hypothesising aloud, not because i think you’re arguing for belf druids! As far as i’ve read we’re on a very similar page on what we understand belf to be and not be (ie they’re the enthralling yet sinister embodiment of elven folklore rather than tolkien holds-hands-with-humans version which people incorrectly assume is the root of elven lore; when in fact it’s actually a deviation from it in some ways)
No actelly it was all your fault as ner’zhul’s the one who corrupted him so actelly it’s your fault we cleaned up your mess.
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Well certain people like to keep it going, but yeah it was hysteria over extra bag slots
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Arthas comitted atrocities before he touched Frostmourne. Frostmourne is what bound his soul to Ner’zhul. If you believe Ner’zhul talking to him is mind control then I guess you believe me telling you to reroll horde is also mind control.
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Ner’zhul chose Arthas because of what characteristics Arthas had that made him a suitable death knight champion. Arthas was not flawless prior to becoming undead. If he were, Ner’zhul would not have chosen him.
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When Arthas merged with the LK, within the helm of domination Arthas’ spirit subdued that of Ner’zhul’s and assumed control of the LK. This is shown in game with the Icecrown quests.
There is little evidence Arthas was not at all to blame for the formation of the LK and the LK’s subsequent actions. The LK of WoTLK was Arthas, they are the same person. NZ’s spirit was not in control once the LK awoke from his slumber post-merge - that’s all Arthas. This is why he repsonds when people refer to him as “Arthas” and he identifies with Arthas’ memories rather than NZ’s.
Stop trying to spin the LK as some horde plant. Prior to WOTLK, maybe just maybe. Post merger? That’s all Arthas baby and that’s when the lich king really started to do badbad bad things. One of the greatest sons of the alliance - one of the greatest villains in WoW. Enjoy.
he had no choice as he was made his slave the moment he took up the blade until he got the hemet then he murdered his spirit.
Arthas did nothing wrong
If Uther helped him out the entire plaguelands would have been fine, his ‘people’ were already infected and would have gone undead either way
Uther was the Thrall to Arthas’ Garrosh
What are you on about.
Arthas culled Stratholme (see: murdered his own people) before he even knew Frostmourne existed.
He disbanded the Paladins because Uther voiced hesitation at the idea, thus suspending their abilities to help stop the plague.
He burned the ships on the shores of Northrend to stop his men going home, and abandoned those who fought for him there to pusue the legend of the runeblade.
He then left Muradin for dead (his mentor and longtime friend) when taking up the blade.
These don’t seem like the actions of someone who is a flawlessly good person.
When he took up the helmet, he (Arthas) murdered Ner’zhul’s spirit. Arthas’ spirit is dominant within the LK.This is literally shown in game. Nobody is shackling anyone except Arthas.
He even casts out the humanity within his personality (represented physically by him casting out his own heart) as Mattias Lenher (sp?) because he sees it as a detriment to what he needs to do.
Nowhere does this even read like he’s dancing to someone else’s tune. Arthas was a flawed individual and he lost sight of his humanity through his own choices and simply followed the path as far as he could with the powers he received. Nobody is to blame for what happened to him except him. It’s what makes him a good character. It’s why he is one of the greatest villains of all time in WoW. Not because he’s just some blonde dummy who was MCed into the role. That completely drains his narrative of all it’s significance.
Note: WoTLK trailer cinematic “I was once like you…” he says to the players (us), the whole ideas of WOTLK is he is luring us into a trap based on an enactment of his journey, so causing the noble to fall prey to their own vices and sucumb to them. Why would he go on about that if that’s not how it played out?
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You put it in fewer words than I am capable of, but yes, that is entirely my stance on them 
You’re doing that thing again. Pretty sure that Arthas was not the player of Ouroc’s ‘fault’… Stop confusing Avatars with People.
Arthas suspended the Paladins before Culling Stratholme. He literally put up barriers towards them assisting in dealing with the plague because they didn’t want to do it “his way”. We have no idea whether there may have been another solution because Arthas didn’t leave room for one.
Even if there was no other solution, that doesn’t change the moral dimensions of the exercise. Paladins are not moral relativists or utilitarians. They follow a code based upon the three virtues, which gives us good reason to assume they see mors within fairly absolute terms. The speed at which Arthas immediatley went to “kill them then” shows a flagrant disregard for the paladin moral framework.
It’s easy to justify his actions externally with the stance of a secularist. Now consider it from the perspective of someone who has sworn to protect life, defend the innocent, and champion honour.
Even if we agree that what Arthas did was ultimatley “right” it doesn’t follow that means it was morally good.
For example if Arthas let them all turn undead, then contained the city’s undead and killed them, surely that is superior? When killing them as humans you add the addiional cocktail of exposing those citizens to the horror that not only are they feeling unwell, but the Crown Prince of their kingdom whom ssupposed to defend them is going to smash their face in with his hammer because “he says it’s okay” - men, women and children. You could argue that this allowed anotherlayer of negative emotions to exist and be experienced prior to death that would not have ben the case if the citizens simply died in their sleep, arose as the mindless then were smashed to bits.
Paladins are suppsoed to kill undead. Killing civillians is quite different. In the same way killing a child who will become a murderer is morally different to killing an adult murder with kills under their belt.
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He did that cus he was either afraid of what would happen if he’d let the scourge take his homeland or cus he refused to listen but either way ner’zhul was slowly corrupting him like how sargeras was over time.
Was meant as a tongue in cheak but, it is based on my interpretation of WC3;
Haste was required, there was no time to chat around possible alternatives, the mission takes place right after they were turned away and they were only turned away because they refused Arthas ways and the first civilians were turned minutes after the mission started in WC3
The way I have interpreted that event in WC3 is basically Uther failing Arthas as a mentor, by letting him be taken away. Uther says it; ‘You’re not my king yet boy’, but then still forsakes the duty given to him by his king; mentor his son.
The scene in my eyes was meant to be a crossroads event, one that made it obvious that if Uther had stayed, everything would be different.
He could have stayed and force Arthas to try a different way, which would still result in the plaguelands or;
He could have stayed and relent to Arthas’ insight (which might have happened if Uther witnessed just how quick these civilians were being turned), in either situation he would have been there after the culling of Stratholme to guide and mentor Arthas further.
It’s all up for interpretation tho I guess
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Arthas’ actual fall from grace doesn’t happen until Northrend, where he sunk the boats of his troops, but Stratholme feels like Uther’s failing
You’re correct in the first part (fault lies with his vices) but it wasn’t down to NZ that early. NZ didn’t even speak to Arthas directly until he had Frostmourne. NZ had nothing to do with it.
Sending Mal’ganis to taunt Arthas and goad him knowing full well he would follow because of pride =/= corruption. It’s manipulation. Which only works if the person can be manipulated (which Arthas could because of his arrogance and pride).
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He fell into the trap which corrupted him thus i’m right.
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That’s…not how it works…
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If you step into quicksand when several signs and people warn you about the quicksand, is it the quicksad’s fault or your own? I hope the answer is obvious.
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Unexpected Balmung reference.
The only other Elf race that makes plausible sense would be Nightborne, since we see Nighthold Terrace Grove Keepers keeping the Nighthold foliage fel-free.
Albeit they are more akin to a Druid-Mage, sort of class.
But I’d also stand for this, if Night Elves got Paladins.
The issue again is there’s a massive difference between “tends plants and cultivates them, caring for them” and “that plus sojourns to the emerald dream, shapeshifts because of affinity to animal spirits and holds wild gods in high esteem” which druidism tends to imply.
I agree though that NB would be more plausible than belf, not because of the botany (belf do that too) but rather Elune seems to have some residual influence in their society and Elune has links to Druidism down the line, whereas Belf do not have that angle as their religious beliefs are either nondescript or Light worship. The Nightborne also appear to be more interested in study of celestial bodies than belf are- which is also something that has links to druidism. You’re right though, they kind of look at the subject in a “mage-like” fashion.
I’d argue that a core requiement of druidism is that you don’t look at it like that, you either experience it directly or you look at it in a naturalistic fashion or even a spiritual one. Nightborne look at it academically. Similar to how being a theologian doesn’t mean one is a priest.
" nothing remained of Ner’zhul but a wail of sorrow in the back of the Lich King’s conciousness. Arthas found it easy to ignore " - Chronicle 3.
I don’t think you can describe that as Arthas being under Ner’zhuls control.
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