So we're now cool with the Horde?


(Leíá) #41

I don’t think it’s the looks in the immediate sense.

It’s the recycled use of Nar’thalas, which feels contradictory to what we saw in the Warbringer. Not even in that, did any of the Elven Towers or Citadels look anything remotely related to Nar’thalas or indeed, Zarkhenar


#42

nah not realy, though in warbringer, the houses looked more middle eastern than what the elven strucktures usualy looked like atleast for me it did.


(Leíá) #43

They looked like what the later High Elves adopted, when creating Quel’Thalas and Silvermoon, and what the Nightborne have still adopted since.

Again, Suramar looks to be THE major Elven Empire City, whereas Zin’Azshari has been made to look like Nar’thalas 2.0.
If you ask me, they should have expanded on Zin’Azshari and given more insight to it’s dungeons - perhaps any guards that were killed, Tyrande’s dungeon, Dath’Remar Sunstrider and really expressed the way the vainest of Highborne lived.


#44

I do aggree that the hole zone could have been way more city like, and not just parts of it, some how I would hope that if we get one more new zone, they make so we can se the rest of the city becuse something must happen if N´zoth emerges, we cant just get a big blob whit many eyes somewhere in middle of the ocean, heck make nazjatar emerge in its full glory, or even make the lore so that where we are now is not the true city at all.


(Leíá) #45

The problem with that though is it does open up more options, but…Blizzard will have to focus on the parts of importance and much of what sank beneath the waves, it isn’t truly relevant to us, once Azshara is dealt with.

It’s just more Highborne Elven cities, buildings, streets and districts and if Azshara is being held, as is aforementioned by Thalyssra (spoilers), then - what relevance is there, in the end?


#46

hmm yeah that is true.


#47

If Super Sylva go again to visit Helya I m going with her… I think it will be more fun there than future with Horde & Alliance :joy:
Ask yourself why is Illidan choose at first place prison & Sargeras than Azeroth or Tyrande :thinking:


(Blunderhoof) #48

I don’t doubt it, actually, I have a growing hunch that your option 2. is where we are headed…
The writings are basicly on the wall, Baine and Saurfang are basicly the goodie twoshoes here to bring it all together, with Jaina and Anduin on the other side.

Let’s see, Sylvanas? Problematic, right? Wouldn’t really work in that plan, so she is brushed aside, as we seem to be experiencing now, she’ll die or become some raidboss for a further time in the while ‘sacrificing herself’ to bring the Horde and the Alliance closer together, wether intended or not, we’ll have to see.

Now, some other problems…Gallywix…or is it just a coincidence that now we’re seeing more of gazlowe ? And his caring for his underlings…he’s the fix to that problem, is my take.

Well, what to do about Nathanos…not sure, either the favorite aisshole stays as a sort of anti villain, wich Sylvanas used to be, or he too has to bite the bullet, sooner or later. ‘Solution’ - Calia Menethil, dreadfull choice really, but she’s there…or it’ll be Lillian Voss, I don’t find her that interresting personally, but she is the actual Forsaken that didn’t want to be, and therefore would work in that sort of setting.

Alliance and Horde will disolve, beaten by the rizen Black Empire under N’zoth and the survivors formed into something else, like the Armies of Legionfall but under Anduin this time, with Jaina, and possibly Thrall(Or Baine) as his right and left hands.
You’ll not be a champion anymore, you’ll just be a footman in the army of Anduin against the Voidlords.

I don’t think this is by any means a stretch right now, but I admit it’s also(obviously) not a onehundred percent certainty, but yes, I do believe it is a very realistic path to the future of WoW now.


(Aerilen) #49

this is the same alliance that tried to charge garrosh with the enslavement of red dragons, right?


#50

The same book that has Sylvanas almost sob at how TERRIBLE Garrosh’s Warcrimes were yes.


(Aeula) #51

Get used to it. In 9.0 Warmode will be non-lethal PvP only.

Where when you win a fight your opponent will be reduced to 1hp and you have ten seconds to help them up and compliment their attempt or you’ll have a tickle bounty put on your head. Then Anduin and Baine will descend from their apotheosis to tickle you and call you a naughty, naughty person.


#52

If I remember correctly, it was the pandaren, who charged him and not his entire faction or race for that, not for simply being in the same faction or race as the people who did that, but for working with them and condoning their actions, as leader of the Horde.


#53

Alliance is always fine with Horde. No matter what happens we are BFFSs forever.

Wounds will heal but oyr friendship bond is unbroken!


#54

can’t wait to crack a cold beer with jaina and reminisce about old times.


#55

Talk about mightly Zandalari and Kul Tiran fleets and dragons.


(Aerilen) #56

It wasn’t, it was Tyrande and she called Alex as a witness. The Alliance took the stance of the leader being responsible for the crimes of those they ally with, even if they are past crimes. Horde took the stance of individual punishment


#57

Tyrande was prosecutor, not official Alliance representative. The fact that she presented the arguments does not mean she, or anyone else in the Alliance believes in them. That is something prosecutors are often required to do. And even if she believed in the charges, that does not in any way imply this was the official stance of the Alliance. It was the pandaren that orchestrated the trial and prepared the charges, which were presented prior to Tyrande’s examination.

My guess is that you started this conversation because you wanted to challenge my claim that the Alliance differentiates between individuals and their race/faction, yet the evidence presented is lackluster and pretty desperate, as you ignore the fact that a prosecutor does not necessarily believe in the arguments they present, they are simply obliged to present them regardless of personal opinion. It also seems quite hypocritical to use Tyrande’s stance as evidence of what the Alliance thinks as a whole, considering the subject of discussion.

Regardless, even if what you said were the case, that does in no way refute my initial assertion that the Alliance is capable of differentiating individuals and groups.


(Telaryn) #58

“No, friend Lor’themar,” said Taran Zhu. “The celestials have indeed offered to be the jury, but are amenable to other ideas. I would be honored to serve as fa’shua as judge. The celestials are wise beings, and wish true justice, and I have come to know many of you who stand before me now. Duly elected representatives from the Alliance and the Horde shall serve as Accuser and Defender, according to ancient Pandaren law.”

The reason Tyrande gets chosen to represent the Alliance in the first place is because the Alliance is playing politics at the trial. They feigned choosing Varian, knowing the Horde would veto him so that they can sneak Tyrande as the prosecutor who they know is even worse. It’s a deliberate play on the Alliance’s part, Tyrande didn’t just get chosen at random.

They also make a point several times in the novel with Taran Zhu having to shut Tyrande down because she’s pursuing the agenda of trying to prosecute the entire Horde for Garrosh’s crimes, which isn’t the premise of the trial to begin with.

And when they actually go through the Alexstrasza bit in the novel, the other Alliance reps in the crowd aren’t shocked at Tyrande – they’re shocked at Alexstrasza for not demanding the death of the orcs. On the contrary, the only Alliance characters at the trial who don’t want that are Anduin and Velen. I guess technically Vereesa with her change of heart towards the final chapter, but she’s on team collective punishment for 90% of the novel.

I think it would do you good to read the novel again, if you have even read it in the first place.


(Aerilen) #59


#60

Maybe you should read that paragraph again. She was elected representative from the Alliance, not of the Alliance, which is what I contested. She represented the accusing side, not the Alliance, you know, like at a trial. On the trial, as you yourself state, she represents the charges of people not affiliated with the Alliance as well. Good job taking a quote out of context, ignoring the actual claim being made, and attempting to debunk that small part though.

If she were official Alliance representative, the Alliance would have used her as a witness to express all their grievances.

So?

And your point is…?

I mean, you seem to miss an important detail here. Even if the Alliance behaved dishonestly during the trial, that does not prove they blame the Horde for Garrosh’s crimes and vice versa. They may simply have raised those charges, knowing they are untrue, to guarantee a punishment, not because they believe they are just, but because they believe they can argue and win. I fail to see how this is inconsistent with my initial statement.