Solution for M+ leavers punishment

Gameplay Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
1

Hello. Let’s say a healer left because he felt like it. But everything was going okay, and the key would have been completed in time if he stayed.
My (Maybe it was stated before, I don’t claim that I’m the owner) proposition: Allow the remaining party to vote. If everyone votes YES, then the healer gets a punishment. Further punishments increase in length. Sometimes (Maybe once a month) the punishment streak resets.
Please tell me your thoughts on this idea.

2

then wat u get afk players mean dont leave u dont get anyting like go afk piss well u not going kill thet boss wich mean no loot end dungen

3

The real solution is probably to find people to do M+ with. Friends, guildies, communities.

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4

Why even suggest punishments… It’s such a poor way to solve the issue.

It’s better to raise the incentatives to finnish runs which goes bad, by perhaps increasing the rewards for not timed runs(and ofcourse timed runs aswell). Then instead allow people to “vote to end key in process” saving the key from degrading, if people leave anyway. That way much of teh frustration are removed from the game.

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5

Every suggestion for punishing m+ leavers I’ve seen fails to distinguish between a player leaving for a legitimate reason versus an illegitimate one. This is reason enough for me to oppose blizzard policing what groups you’re allowed to leave.

For example, a system of voting to punish someone is asking to be abused. Think of any legitimate reason you can for leaving a group. Do you really want the people you leave behind to have to power to punish you for it?

I’ve pugged so many m+ runs over the last two expansions and so few of those runs had leavers. I’m unconvinced that this is a problem that need solving on blizzards end, especially given the glaring issues with every suggested system of punishment I’ve seen.

6

Imagine DOTA without low priority for leavers. Imagine that everyone is free to leave when they want. This would be hell and nobody would play the game without a full party of friends. But it happens to WoW now, and there is no protection against the ABUSE of LFG. This is just ridicilous and lazy from devs’ part. This could be fixed so easy, but we get more store mounts. GG guys.

7

That’s quite of a hyperbole ain’t it? I’ve had about 5 leavers or so since the expansion started. Unless this is something exclusive to the horde side ofc… but that can’t really be true.:face_with_raised_eyebrow: Or can it?

Bringing up store mounts…? It’s not even the same group of developers who work on the store mounts. It’s a whole different team. :roll_eyes:

I hate to be honest… but people who often seem to get into these issues with leavers in mythic+ probably have to move their own lawn first. Cause there’s no epidemic with random leavers… people leave for a reason. I’ve left two dungeons since BfA started;

The first one was a utter fail group. People who didn’t know the basics at all, standing in everything. Then they started to blame me when they died of constant avoidable damage. It wasn’t even a “oopsie” they just stood there and took it head on over and over.

The second one was a unison decision after multiple attempts to kill Razdunk with a healer who could not avoid his abilities. Even when I healed him, BoP:ed him, used my lay on hands on him etc… he could not survive long enought for us to acctually kill the boss.

On both these occasions a “Leaver punishment system” in the form many trolls on this forum seem to suggest, whould had given me Deserted/Lock out or even worse some suggest to fully ban player accounts.

In the first case I was the abused player. I gave up my time to heal them, they returned the favor by flaming me for their own stupid misstakes. What If the group agrees that it don’t work and it will end up being the first one to leave that have to take the full brunt of this “leaver punishment system”…

If the group are horrible, a leaver punishment system whould be ABUSIVE in itself and I say this as a very patient and understanding player. Who whould dare enter a group… what if you get locked into a dungeon with people who have no chance to even complete the dungeon.

There’s acctually people, at 400+ ilvl dealing less then 5k dps out there, there’s healers who can’t dispel or even heal properly, there’s groups when 5/5 people don’t know how to interupt(or are unable to).

You brought up DOTA, you know if you joined a game were people fed the other team 30-0 within minutes, whould you still keep on playing? :confused: Or whould you rather AFK untill the game ends to avoid to get the leavers punishment?

Thing is people gear up too quickly, they have no incentatives to become good players… or even patient players. People want instant gratification without having to put in the effort to not be carried. Others don’t like to carry… and will always leave a group if they feel this is the case.

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8

Why not just give people like a 1-2 hour “Deserter” debuff that gets shown in the LFG tool when you apply to a group/create a group so people know you have left a previous dungeon before completion.

Also add a vote option for M+ keys to “Disband group” and if the majority of players votes yes the group gets disbanded without anyone gettig the debuff.

Edit: On top of that add a tracker of how many keys a player has abandoned and make it publicly available through the API so Rio will pick it up and include it in the tooltips. Problem will solve itself.

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9

Why not give players a debuff that they died to avoidable sources multiple times like a “floor inspector” debuff. So people know they won’t invite this player, because it will become a strain on the healer and probably cost them alot of time or even wipes.

I’m sarcastic btw. but what people constantly suggest are systems which whould become abusive in content made for constructed groups. Yes Mythic+ are similar to raiding in this sense, just way more sensitive since you can’t replace talents, gear or group members once you click “start dungeon”.

You construct a group to tackle content, which means the one who invites another person are responsible for that person pulling It’s weight.

A Vote kick/Deserter system can function in automatic group content, the "quick match" tool for dungeons should not be confused with the LFG tool in general. Heck even in the “quick match” parts of the game, deserter and vote kick are being abused.

I think the issue here are that people truly confuse mythic+ with queueing for a random HC. They are not the same at all, the group leader have the responsibility to make sure the group have the skills and utility required to beat the content. In the “quick match tool”, you don’t have any control and thus no responsibilities.

Like a few weeks ago I had to do a emergency +10 for the chest so I used my own key to form a +11 Underrot. I’m glad i didn’t just do a stone destruction down to a easier +10, since the warlock I invited constantly stood in every single blood matron cleave(without being stuck in a barbed net). It was impossible for me to outheal the cleave on the netted hunter, the stupid warlock and the tank incoming damage on a fortified week. I had to make the though descision to let the warlock die, since he already stood in all cleaves that ended up in his general direction. The 3rd DPS had realised that this was a disaster in a making and said that he whould leave… so yeah he left.

We went out I removed the warlock and reformed. Then we cleared the dungeon with ease after that. But it still was my fault we ended up in this situation since I invited a person who was clueless. Do the dps:er who left deserve a deserter? Perhaps… whould it solve the issues? Not really. Do the Warlock deserve a deserter? Not really since he stayed right… but he was the cause the leaver left in the first place.

Since i know people will reference legion at one point or another… I’d just say; Legion was the previous expansion. Legion was void of any skill requirements, so anyone could do anything as long as they knew their basic rotation, anything above this basic requirement was just a bonus. It was easy and everyone was happy right? Well it didn’t sound that way back in legion…

People complained it was too easy to do the “max chest level” content and it became too unforgiving past a certain point with one shot abilities and such. Tanks and healers became carries for groups since it was a possibility…

Thus the new dungeons in BfA now requires people to think on their feet, offensive dispels in the form of soothe and purge have great value in some packs and if you don’t have these you have to counter that mechanic by other means.

The primary issue are; that these mechanics only really start to matter beyond certain milestones. Even at a +2 Keystone mechanics start to matter, but since people come into these keys with ~380-390 ilvl you can just brute force trought untill +5-6 when suddenly, the same abilities start to put strains on tanks and healers if not dealt with properly.

All of a sudden players notice that they really need a +10 done each week and here you can no longer just ignore any of the mechanics or you will die unless the healer and tank are a couple of beasts. DPS also start to matter significantly, because otherwise the healer might run out of mana and it will become a wipe.

The issue with punishing leavers are; that the one who leaves first probably have a significantly good reason for it in many cases. I won’t deny however that some people are just leaving because they are douchebags… But how whould a system differenciate between the two?

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10

The issues you have to notice with punishments:

  1. How does it work with leaves in contrast to kicks (if there is no punishment for kicks, people will afk to avoid the punishment, if it is a simple kick from the group leader it will be abused, if it is everyone except the one getting kicked who has to agree for the punishment, there will not be any 4-1 groups anymore, because abuse is feared) -> already pretty much against any punishment.
  2. How is it concerning the timer (can people hold you hostage to complete the key even after the timer finishes, you are 20% over, twice the timer, … what is the limit for one player to draw a line) -> There has to be a line when players are allowed to leave, if you assume the timer is made to be the goal, I think more than 20% over should never be the target goal (if everyone agrees to finish it in 3 hours, that is fine, but this should not be a goal for any random group)
  3. How does it affect voluntary quits (your proposal solved this issue with a group vote for punishment, if it was a group decision nobody would vote for punishment).

Points 2 and 3 can be solved in a decent way, however I think point 1 is such a ridiculous negative there should not be punishments.
You have to notice this is not match made content (unlike in DOTA), you select the players for your group and if you have a certain goal in mind (finish it after the timer or a lot faster), you can select those players accordingly. At least you can try to ask for their motives (please, don’t lie, if you are dishonest everybody looses time, either because you can’t achieve it in time or because you leave when you agree to run beyond the timer while you want to finish it in time only).

A question that gets asked quite frequently - how about valid reasons for leaving (your house is on fire) - in my opinion this is a secondary class issue. You can’t validate if there is a critical issue outside of WoW, this is the reason why you get not so harsh punishments in WoW matchmaking content. You can not validate, therefore Blizzard will not introduce large scaley punishments outside of short term reoccurring missteps.

11

Congratulations. You didn’t think an ounce before you posted.

When someone leaves, regardless of who destroyed the key (btw, because of this, I never leave the first, people only see the last evil, it didn’t matter that the tank destroyed every pull and died, it matters that you left the group whose key was over 5 mins in), what do you think the brain does? It seeks the easy way out - who to blame? The healer, usually, no matter what happens, but in this case, the one who left.

Doesn’t matter that the 4 other people didn’t care about their time at all and refused to do basic tactics, wiping over and over. None of that matters, you must waste your time and stay with a group that clearly has no interest to respect your time.

If I come to a game of football and just randomly shoot the ball out of the yard, over and over and over, without regard to my teammates, are you gonna hug me, say how well I’m doing and finish the game? No, you probably punch me, you get me out of there and never play with me again.

Get real. Stop being 4fun.

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12

And what is WoW if not as entertainment method? I usually play to have some fun. Relax and take a deep breath.
Unless you are some professional gamer who has sponsor contracts to fulfill(in that case. I would really doubt you would be pugging. But would have dedicated m+s team"

“Get real. Stop treating WoW as a real life career or profession”.

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13

How much money are you making playing WoW? Does it further your career?

14

Then stick to +10s or specifically mention “I play for fun and won’t care about mechanics or learn” and don’t apply to 16-17s or go into any keys.

But then I guess no one invites you and you’re using this to bash people who rightfully left because you don’t care.

Don’t get me wrong, if you play just for fun, then so be it, but, again, state it to the team and don’t destroy people’s keys.

15

I get invited often enough. And being relaxed and calm(in my view) doesn’t mean “I stand in fire and don’t know what interrupt means”.

Just my impression what I got from your other posts(Ofc I can be wrong)
Playing m+ with this mindset(warning: this example uses raging. Just for the example):
somebody misses 1 interrupt or accidently ninja pulls 1 add
OMG! YOU ARE censored! LIKE SERIOUSLY! USE YOUR censored WHEN PLAYING! LIKE C"MOOOOOOOOOOOOON. YOU NOOB! LEARN TO PLAY!!!
/ragequit

Pretty much edit it it like this: “I play for fun, I do the mechanics. But I won’t ragequit or go full “Gordon Ramsay” on somebody if they…sneeze in the wrong moment”

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16

I wonder if those people complaining about players leaving keystones really play on that keystone level.
I think you are totally of topic because those people generally

I seriously doubt that players at +15s lack basic tactics.
Maybe you should think about those tactics as more advanced and talk about it beforehand.

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17

So players who do +15s or higher do not do it for fun? Interesting.

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