if this is the level of weekly “tunes” to df i would rather go play classic or anything else that dont get reworked to something overtuned and overnerfed every 2 weeks
@Flower ur defending something which is overtuned and breaking the already broken state of game and ur offending me with ur childish comments for pointing out the obvious anyone with eyes can see just looking the game or any stream or even the dumb state of awc where people die in 1min
i dont care read ur bias or nonsense longer u dont need reply to me it goes on perma ignore
Disc could use some dps nerfs for sure, everyone can agree on that. Maybe increase % on atonement and decrease dmg, or maybe just nerf dmg. Other than that i don’t think when it comes to pure healing disc is best.
lets wait now for the every disc / reroller coming in to drop their pathetic level delusional and biased remarks how the recent changes are not overtuned or how its good that overtuned burst meta has 3 dps now
Regarding disc, the underlying problem, in my opinion, is that they try to make all classes have equal damage, but some classes are allowed to have healing. If we make a system were we grade damage from 1-10 and healing from 1-10, but we want all classes to have 5, then we get something like this:
Class 1: dmg 5, heal 2 = 7
Class 2: dmg 5, heal 5 = 10
Class 3: dmg 5, heal 0 = 5
Class N: dmg x, heal y = x + y
Then, if Arena is about output, then classes that have a higher value of x+y should have a higher output (Class 2 for instance has output 10 versus class 3 who has output 5), and so the reality becomes that classes such as disc are not strong because they have OP healing or OP damage, its because they bring both at high values, so that the total output is outperforming.
As a result, a disc priest and a fury warrior can shift between double dps and dps+heal depending on the needs, while a composition such as resto druid + BM hunter are exclusively forced into 1 dps 1 heal. This flexibility is insanely good to have, as you can very easily find out the weakness of the opponent team and capitalize on it. And because of the disc output on both fronts, it almost feels like playing 2v2.5.
What can we do? Make a relationship between dmg and heal, such that x + y = 10. This way, if you want to be a hybrid, you get 5 of each, and a class like rogue should have 10 in dmg and then 0 in healing, making a strong cc class incapable of self sustaining. This also means that if a healer wants to assist on dmg, in their specc they must choose talents that reduces their healing as a result. Thus, disc priest has to make a choice; do I play as a true hybrid 5+5 or do I want to make less dmg to be more of a healer, say 2.5+7.5.
No he is not supposed to do that
He is supposed to heal by doing damage. It doesnt mean that he should hit you for 50k damage to heal for 50k.
He can hit you for 5k and it can translate into 50k healing. That’s how this spec always worked and nobody complained. It’s a healer, not a dps spec.
Even if Disc is OP in damage, the reason everyone is re-rolling disk in droves is because every other healer is garbage. Even Rdruid and Pevoker, who were OP some weeks ago, are now feeling the pressure. Why? More and more people with full conquest gear + OP tier sets. Thats why.
Disc maybe needs tuning. But its not urgent.
What we need ASAP, as in 4 weeks ago:
40% damage nerf across the board to EVERYONE or,
400k HP extra across the board
Then when other healers can use their toolkit fully with out being stressed about people dying in 1 GCD we can talk about balancing the DPS of healers.
I say this because shaman on paper can theoretically dish out some serious pain. But I cant. I have to turret heal this insane meta or my team looses.
Once I can, then we talk about balancing healer specs.
holy jesus hell no. this completely deletes specs and comps from arena. 2v2 would be the worst it’s ever been in the history of wow with this change, with the only viable comps being healer+top dps and the few counter comps.
Yeah lets make pvp like pve boss fights. Watch me perfect my damage rotation for 5min while I wait for dampening to be high enough for things to die.
Problem with disc priest is not their healing, it is that they are contributing to the very point you are making; burst damage. Every 2v2 with a disc priest has the same plan; zug zug, and if that doesnt work, disc will start healing.
No healer should be able to make that choice. It is almost the same as giving all healers a shot at playing their dps specc, and if they didnt win on the first 10 seconds of zug zug, then we restart the fight in healer specc instead.
i don’t play dps specs so i can’t do that no matter what, even with brew burst setup or avenging might protadin. tanks would be completely unplayable, and 2 dps comp wouldn’t work against healer+dps ever. nothing really this drastic needs to be done, even +200k hp with -20% damage dealt is WAY too much. i think the current state of health and damage is perfectly fine, and thought it was fine even before the 10.0.5’s change to trinket set bonus stats.
if anything, healers should run oom slightly faster and all healers at approximately the same rate of mana expenditure.
Well the problem is twofold. How much you need to heal depends on a couple of parameters for the target you are healing:
How much damage your target takes.
How much damage reduction your target has.
How much self-healing your target has.
As a healer you contribute the last part.
Healing a MM Hunter versus healing a Fury Warrior are completely different experiences. What I then point out is that the game should be balanced around these capabilities. Bringing a Fury Warrior vs an Arms warrior should be about more sustain through self healing versus more damage but less self healing by the Arms.
The problem with the disc priest is that it does incredibly well in both areas. So there is no drawback. The drawback has to be there in order for it to be balanced. That a disc priest can outheal resto shamans and do as much dmg as enhancement shamans in the same game, by being 1 player only, is outrageous. If you get to do a lot of healing then you get to do very little damage and vice versa. Anything else is game breaking.
try to play it in arena before talking trash than you find out that druids/lizard do twice youre healing and can spam cyclone while doing it.
disc is only good in bgs/brawls.
in shadowlands disc was way better of as right now at the moment
What you say makes sense. And I totally agree. But your argument is only valid on paper when it comes to healers. All healers have the tools to do some degree of damage.
I only play Shaman, so I will give you specific examples:
I have lava surges that can proc and deal 60k crit each hit. Each one of my lightning bolts does 40k damage. I also leave a dot that ticks for ~8k every second. And has 10% chance of giving me instant 60k lava surge. If I dot all 3 targets in a 3v3, I have a 30% chance each second of doing 60k damage instantly.
And that is only part of my kit. To name a few: A totem that gives 20% extra crit damage on my already big 60k crits. Or counter-strike totem that bounces the 80k MS of warriors back to their face (which is hilarious by the way).
With all pain I can deliver, why are the forums not full of people asking to nerf Rshamans? Because no resto shaman right now (in any rating) has the GCD available to cast a single Lightning Bolt.
Disc does. Thats the thing that is OP in this meta.
Disc priest is currently the second highest played class-specc in solo shuffle, and the nr-1 played class-specc in 2v2 at 16.4% in the bracket 2200+. That means, roughly every 6.5th person you meet in 2v2 is a disc priest. On average that should be 1 disc priest in every second 2v2 game and 2 disc priests in every three 2v2 games.
This means, for the statistics to be true, on average, if you are not playing a disc priest in your 2v2 team, then 2 out of 3 teams you fight against will have a disc priest. This is consistent with my experience.
oh eery team i come across is resto druid arms or resto druid assa if any spec currently need a huge nerf its not any of the healing specs its actually specs like assa for instance, arms a little nerf and ele too other than that nothings really badly overtuned
I agree that assa is overtuned, and I have made a post about it here:
I disagree that disc priest doesnt need a nerf.
I disagree that Arms need a nerf. Its very squishy and easy to counter because they are so linear. Its not like an arms warrior will throw a Spear of Bastion and then you dont know what will happen next.