Specs that need immediate nerfs

[Whisperer-defias-brotherhood (Whisperer)]

Its getting ridiculous since 5 high rated players told you how insane MLD is and was.

And 3 higher rated players (Snutz, Maldiva, whoever did the skill cap guide) told me otherwise. If mentioning somebody elses opinion and their rating is go to, then you’re wrong too, because Snutz was multiple R1 and so was Maldiva.

If they’re higher rated players than me, then they can use their argument. It’s stupid nevertheless, but at least isn’t hypocrisy.
With you it’s both.

You’re not higher rated player than me, in fact you’re extremely low rated player in 3s, so it’s really unreasonable of you to mention my rating

[Whisperer-defias-brotherhood (Whisperer)]

Indeed. If Whisperboy could actually either listen or play and find out for himself it would be amazing.

I do both.

However “he has better rating than you, even tho my rating is garbage, but I am right and you’re wrong” isn’t suffiicient argument for me.

[Tyròss-thrall]

Whisperer actually had a good point there.

When Skillcapped’s Tier list isn’t accurate because just one person wrote it (While they actually tell you that it’s worked up together with multiple other R1 Players)

Why should Cutipie’s opinion be the actual correct one then? I remember him as hardcore 2vs2 Player aswell^^

" Here you will find a strong representation of the current metagame from an EU point of view. That being said, this view should closely mirror meta games throughout all regions.

All specs have been assigned to a tier based on the comps available to them and not necessarily because of their power alone. PvE gear has also been considered."

++

I think, most here just want to find reasons to actually blame/hate him in this Thread. I know this cause of actually a geat example here.

I mean, why can someone else start mention his rating, then he goes on the same lvl and defends himself that he isn’t on that low lvl you put him to.

Then HE get’s actually blamed for his rating bashing, while he didn’t even start the whole. While someone elses actually came with the whole rating topic.

This isn’t a constructive conversation, this is actually a sort of mobbing by a group of players, cause no matter what, he got blamed and it doesn’t matter if he’s just acting from a defense state, he is pointed as the “as*hole”

No offense, and it doesn’t mean i completly agree with him or in any point, but this is actually disgusting to read.

[Shadenox-ravencrest (Shadenox)]

I do both

You mean you play or played at high rating ? Because evidence suggests otherwise. So you don’t do both. And since you never listen to someone who doesn’t agree with you before a discussion even begins because hey, you’re so entitled to being right, I’d even say you do neither.

[Shadenox-ravencrest (Shadenox)]

he is pointed as the “as*hole”

Probably comes from an attitude he’s been having for a while, people usually don’t all select someone to design as the annoying guu without ever having a reason to.

Whenever he speaks he believes he’s right. There is no single argument in which he says “ah, you might be right on that point” (not even the whole argument, a damn point!!), he just denies whatever people can conjure up and believes his opinion is sanctity. So yes, that attitude is frowned upon and because it’s the internet some people are, say, very vehement. He also has a way to demand things from people or criticize them, but that won’t apply to the holy Him. In multiple threads you can see him and a random person, be it me or anyone else, at a disagreement. Then he’s going to ask for evidence when given facts. When asked for evidence of his own PoV in return what’s the answer ? “No, I don’t have to provide evidence because I’m right, you need evidence if you want to try to prove me wrong”. Imagine saying this in a real debate. How can you have a constructive conversation with someone as arrogant as that ? He brings nothing to conversations with that mindset, since he has done decided he was right by default and thus has nothing to add.

How would you converse with someonr behaving like this ? How can you when what you say it deemed garbage that has to be backed up while what he says is gold and doesn’t need proof ? How can you when he allows himself to behave a certain way with others but finds it intolerable if someone does the same with him ?

[Yóú-bloodfeather]

Are you lot still at it??

Have you noticed whenever you lot start commenting on anything, the others just swam like flies and then the topic of the discussions goes out the window because you just have your petty keyboard warrior beef?

[Tyròss-thrall]

How would you converse with someonr behaving like this ? How can you when what you say it deemed garbage that has to be backed up while what he says is gold and doesn’t need proof ? How can you when he allows himself to behave a certain way with others but finds it intolerable if someone does the same with him ?

Probably, go in a conversation from a neutral point of view, here no matter what class you play or what others put their opinions in your head.

Talk in a constructive, non emotional and nonbiased way, stay open minded and accept other opinions

Don’t go full negative, if there is a point that is actually true in your opinion or he is pointing out something corret, even if its one thing under a hundrets, it’s worth to mention.

Also, dont rate other’s just based on older posts or comments. There could always be an insight or change. Play allround what’s going on right now, not what happened once.

The problem is, there are allways the ppl tend to provoke other ppl (wanted or unwanted), and there are the ppl that are and/or tend to react impulsive. Both sides has kind of an emotional part, just that reacting impulsive make you stand in a worth position after especially when most members of the thread are in a biased state of “i know this guy, he’s just talking bullsh*t”.

By not triggering that, it could actually be a better conversation overall. If both parts act emotional, the discussian is gonna actually escalate pretty fast.

All i can say is, please try to stay on the ground, and don’t tend to act emotional

EDIT:

I like this new Forum caugh When accidently theres the word: s h i t somewhere in your wall of text, in a non offend way, and you need to find it, before you are allowed to post

[Whisperer-defias-brotherhood (Whisperer)]

How would you converse with someonr behaving like this ? How can you when what you say it deemed garbage that has to be backed up while what he says is gold and doesn’t need proof ?

Did I not back up my argument of tiers by backing it up with Skill capped tiering?
What exactly did you or Tom back up your claim with?
I’m just saying I don’t take your words for it over theirs.

So I’d actually say it’s the opposite, you don’t bother back up anything and deny every evidence I propose without explanation why it should be wrong.
(Best you did was to say that skill cap can be wrong… which I agree, anybody can be wrong, I just don’t think it’s sufficient to show that it is wrong)

I mean, why can someone else start mention his rating, then he goes on the same lvl and defends himself that he isn’t on that low lvl you put him to.

Then HE get’s actually blamed for his rating bashing, while he didn’t even start the whole. While someone elses actually came with the whole rating topic.

Yes, this is hillarious.

Whenever he speaks he believes he’s right.

You have literally no idea what I believe in, so don’t strawman me something you can’t know. Thank you. If you speak of attitude, this is exactly the arrogant attitude that’s annyoing to me.

There is no single argument in which he says “ah, you might be right on that point” (not even the whole argument, a damn point!!)

There’s been in past. But it required evidence.

he just denies whatever people can conjure up and believes his opinion is sanctity

well I believe I am right, as literally everybody, if anybody would think he’s wrong, he’d just think the opposite thus effectively believe he’s right… that’s tautology

If you’re triggered by this, then I can’t help you. But to say my opinion is sanctity? I never said that and you have no idea what I believe.

He also has a way to demand things from people or criticize them, but that won’t apply to the holy Him.

Like where exactly?

When asked for evidence of his own PoV in return what’s the answer ? “No, I don’t have to provide evidence because I’m right, you need evidence if you want to try to prove me wrong”.

Never happened. I am pretty sure I never said “I don’t have to provide evidence because I am right”… that’s something I don’t agree with and never use as a way to defend my opinion.
But there are cases where burden of proof lies with the opposite site.

E.G. when somebody says Lock is broken, then sure, I ask them to explain why and I don’t think at that point I have to proof they’re not. If I say they’re not, then sure, I have to provide evidence too.

ALSO BTW: I don’t deem your opinion to be garbage. I deem it to be unsupported. And I did support my opinion with Skill capped tiering.

[Whisperer-defias-brotherhood (Whisperer)]

whisperer is just a moron who loves his class to be op dont even bother responding to him, to him it would be balanced if conflagate 1 shotted enemies hes just that sort of a**hat

This is wrong on so many levels

1. You don’t know what I think, so don’t speak of that
2. Destruction Warlock is not my class, it never has been, I did play different classes to higher level. I think that’s enough to illustrate that’s not my class. Same way I don’t single out you for being level 55 without acknowledging you can have different class that’s maybe > 55 level.
3. I never said that conflagrate one shotting enemies is balanced. Nor do I think so. So this strawman fallacy doesn’t really work. This is one of those scenarios when you failed to address the arguments, so you create your own, ridiculous arguments and then assign them to me as it’s something I said - or even more ridiculously - something I think.

[Tom-arathor (Tom)]

Can’t believe people are still in denial over MLD being S Tier and even if it wasn’t, there’s still no arguement against Destro being one of the very best specs in the game right now. Regardless of their numbers, their raw utility is ridiculous in the current state of the game. They have unlimited peels for their team mates, making team mates near immortal while being a 300k hp stone turret themselves.

People are treating a skillcap guide from months ago/many meta shifts ago that says MW is S tier and Survival Hunter and Feral are a lower tier than Fury warrior like it’s the be all and end all.

One of the most successful warrior comps of last season (played by 3 different teams at 3k+mmr) isn’t even on that guide. Not to discredit Mystic or anything because his guides are normally very accurate but just the nature of the game makes them outdated quickly.

Obviously when you’re at whisperers rating meta shifts aren’t a thing, it’s all just one big mess of comps jumbled up into one throughout the entire season. Not even trying to flame by saying that, it’s a factually true statement.

[Shadenox-ravencrest (Shadenox)]

Did I not back up my argument of tiers by backing it up with Skill capped tiering ?

If you had read my message you’d have understood the clear words that referred to an overall attitude of yours, not necessarily with that specific argument in that specific thread. But thank you.

There’s been in past. But it required evidence

That same evidence you’ve got the priviledge to avoid giving ? Or another kind of ?

well I believe I am right, as literally everybody, if anybody would think he’s wrong, he’d just think the opposite thus effectively believe he’s right… that’s tautology

Lets turn the brain on shall we ? Everyone when submitting an opinion believes it to be valid. That’s very right. The differencr between civilized and socially able people and the person you (lets not say are) appear to act as on forums is that a normal person, when confronted with the actual factual truth can say oh, I was wrong while you don’t seem to be able to. That difference is huge.

Like where exactly

I’m not so free of work as to spend time digging in the other threads you’ve been a prick on, but if you cannot admit that you’ve already said something along the lines of “prove me I’m wrong then, I don’t need to prove Inm right since I am” eithet you’ve got memory issues, and depending on age seeing a specialist fast is recommended, or you’re just … The word starts with an s… Third solution is you admit it of course but as I was saying just a tad earlier you seem to have issues with the concept.

Never happened. I am pretty sure I never said “I don’t have to provide evidence because I am right”… that’s something I don’t agree with and never use as a way to defend my opinion.

Well, adressed just above. I guess you should study never say never, or tell us when you’ve become a new person so we can date which messages belong to the old whispertroll and whick belong to an actual grown up.

Btw :

And I did support my opinion with Skill capped tiering.

People are treating a skillcap guide from months ago/many meta shifts ago that says MW is S tier

But you’ve got a solid proof, no need to actually play at high rating to know better than those who do, reading outdated stuff is enough alright.

[Lyo-onyxia]

So guys to help this Conversation to move on:

Destro is atm a great spec for PvP no question about that, BUT its Design is really Garbage. I know that Damage from Destruction with CD´s is really high but we need that to be viable at all.
Give Warlock some Utility back (baseline Portal,…) and some Buffs to “normal” Spells like Incinerate. So they can reduce CB Damage and believe me no Warlock will complain about that.
When you get smashed by 2 Melees you won´t have any fun getting trained 24/7. Even if you win the game in the End.

Also I should say that Destro is only Playable because of 1 Azerite Trait that gives an Crazy amount of Haste. If it wouldn´t exist Destro would be Garbage as every other WL spec.

English ist not my first language so please ignore some Mistakes

[Whisperer-defias-brotherhood (Whisperer)]

If you had read my message you’d have understood the clear words that referred to an overall attitude of yours, not necessarily with that specific argument in that specific thread.

Do you think it’s reasonable to discuss here my person instead of discussing topics?
Why didn’t you react to my backed-up claim then? Instead you refer to me being wrong now because maybe I didn’t present enough evidence in different topic, which, ah the hypocrisy, you didn’t actually back up either (where exactly did this happen?)

Hillariously you do deny my claim for which I presented evidence because I allegedly didn’t present evidence in different topic… but for which you don’t present evidence.

To sum up:
I said Warlock doesn’t have Tier S comp. You deny that.
My supporting evidence is Skill capped. Yours is that maybe in different topic I didnt present evidence. Evidence for this claim? Nowhere. Reason why it should matter even if that happen? None.

But you’ve got a solid proof, no need to actually play at high rating to know better than those who do, reading outdated stuff is enough alright.

I don’t claim I know better than Tom. I claim that I believe Skill capped, more R1 people, than Tom for many reasons and one of them is biased. While I suspect Tom to be biased, I don’t suspect multiple other people to be biased in Skill Capped, as it’d be contraproductive towards their customers.

[Whisperer-defias-brotherhood (Whisperer)]

The differencr between civilized and socially able people and the person you (lets not say are) appear to act as on forums is that a normal person, when confronted with the actual factual truth can say oh, I was wrong while you don’t seem to be able to. That difference is huge.

You mean like if I were to come here, present factual truth and evidence (like Skill capped tiering) and you’d deny that, it’d mean you’re uncivilized and socially incapable?

This really works against you. Even though you tried to used it as funny insult.

I do accept factual evidence. In fact I asked for some.

All you said that maybe in some different topics I didn’t present evidence. How is that connected? I have no idea. Is it true? I doubt so, because ridiculously, you didn’t present evidence of a case where I didn’t present evidence for something I should’ve.

Tom said Skill capped can be wrong. That’s not factual evidence. That’s statement. And obviously anybody can be wrong. But if it is, there is a reason. And I am asking for that reason and proof.

1) You accussed me of many things over and over. But you failed to provide proof for anything.
2) Instead of attacking my supported arguments you attack me
3) You deny my reasons and my evidence without actually providing evidence of why it should be denied.
And you call me uncivilized?
What exactly at what I am doing is uncivilized?
And before you answer, quote me on when that uncivilized thing occurred. So we know you didn’t make it up and isn’t just false accusation.

[Shadenox-ravencrest (Shadenox)]

Do you think it’s reasonable to discuss here my person instead of discussing topics?

What if I answer yes ?

Why didn’t you react to my backed-up claim then?

I did. Which invalides your subsequent wall of text.

About skill cap, it’s a good source up until the moment it’s outdated. Did you check that out ? The date ? Thr shifts between the date and now ?

quote me on when that uncivilized thing occurred

I and others did many times over to no avail. Feel free to check my messages sometimes in threads you were an a**, I won’t go and dig them up myself. Or don’t. Do we care ? Maybe you do… That being said, do you believe you’ve become disliked by most just because they didn’t like your tranmog warlock dear ? No, it’s because you can never listen to, or acknowledge, anything you didn’t previously agree with.

[Tom-arathor (Tom)]

Why does every warlock think it’s Chaos Bolt damage people complaining about?? That’s part of the problem but the bulk of the problem is in the warlocks design itself.

You’re too tanky for most melee (or casters!) to have any real pressure on outside of huge offensive CDs and you have far too much defensive utility for anyone to be able to kill any of your team mates. Fear, Root, Coil and shadowfury and an addition off DR infernal stun is just too much. First step is making Fear and bolt share a lockout along with making the infernal stun a daze not a stun, similar to how DH meta stun was/is now.

[Whisperer-defias-brotherhood (Whisperer)]

Thr shifts between the date and now ?

You’re right, it’s still 8.1.5 based… but we’re talking about last season’s MLD.
Therefore it’s not outdated. It’s precisely dated.

MLDs at 3.1k+ last season.

Why does every warlock think it’s Chaos Bolt damage people complaining about?? That’s part of the problem but the bulk of the problem is in the warlocks design itself.

I agree. I did not ask for my mobility to be removed. But community of non-warlocks complained and our mobility got gutted. This is the result. If Warlock gets significant buff to mobility (DC baseline, gateway 45 sec CD or at least 1 min) then we can talk about removing demon armor, mastery and soul leech.

So far Warlock can’t move, so obviously he needs to survive. And unfortunately it leads to game being long until dampening, in which warlock just dies… because again… no mobility.

First step is making Fear and bolt share a lockout along with making the infernal stun a daze not a stun, similar to how DH meta stun was/is now.

So first step is to kill the spec right on the spot.

Why is it that you don’t want Greater Pyro, RoF and Polymorph on same lockout?

IF melee have crazy mobility as they do right now to a point that you can’t create gap, then it’s reasonable that casters have so many spell schools that they can cast when melee is in their range.

Melee had downside of range. Casters of cast time. Melee’s downside doesn’t exist anymore (unless Frost Mage or possibly Shaman), then why should Casters downside exist? Besides Warlock is more vulnerable, since Chaos Bolt locks him out of everything. That’s unique Warlock thing. LITERALLY.

[Tom-arathor (Tom)]

I retire from trying to educate whisperer, he’s literally just the destro lock shill equivalent of Jito

his forum ‘tactic’ is just hammering nonsensical points over and over while drawing comparisons between classes that aren’t even remotely parallel to each other.

Imagine if Whisperer played a warrior, he’d aruge that warriors should have 2 charges on a 10sec cd and leap on a 25sec cd to match demon hunters felrush and vengeful retreat

[Whisperer-defias-brotherhood (Whisperer)]

he’s literally just the destro lock shill equivalent of Jito

? as I stated multiple times, I play other classes over Warlock
I did earn more rating as other classes than Warlock in both BFA Seasons.

I don’t know where does your idiocy come from by refering to me as Destro Lock.

Imagine if Whisperer played a warrior, he’d aruge that warriors should have 2 charges on a 10sec cd and leap on a 25sec cd to match demon hunters felrush and vengeful retreat

Well I do play Warrior. I have level 20 Warr… so this is straightfoward false accusation that’s by its nature also wrong.
Quote me when I ask for that buff to my Warr.

[Shephard-senjin]

Rogue
/10chars