well it could be that Sylvanas gets dethroned, Derek after some realy odd stuff becomes the new leader of the forsaken whit Calia, in a way it could make sence, becuse Derek will never be accepted buy the hole alliance, even if anduin and jaina have no problems whit some undead running arround.
Nothing would be accepted by the whole alliance but we still got the Void Elves.
This just makes no sense for me. Both are wildcards imo.
2 Likes
Maby but it is an possibility, there is no way horde would accept Nathanos to take over the forsaken if something happens to Sylvanas, or if they do, they are pure morons, offcourse everything depends on how the lore continues.
We have still Lillian Voss as alternative.
1 Like
Alonsus Faooooooool!
Go away with Undead Holy Priests. What’s the next, Lightforged Undead?
3 Likes
Lightforged undead in the alliance. led by her majesty calia menethil. holy noises intensify
1 Like
Sir Zeliek returns back from the dead!
1 Like
Nah, you can keep Med’an 2.0.
1 Like
and more predictable.
did the siege or Lordaeron teach you nothing?
2 Likes
Kind of does since they wanted to strike swiftly and quick to end the war before it even truly began.
Heck they couldn’t even bring the Gnomes along proper until later with the help of Void magic.
and while Genn can Advice Anduin.
Anduin was the one leading the charge, and as seen in Elegy Genn just agrees to what Anduin says, mostly.
You also seem to forget that without House Proudmoore there is no United Kul’tiras first a new ruler would have had to be picked a new Lord Admiral.
and then what?
the Kul’tirans would attack alone without the Allliance aid like Tyrande?
now unlike her they do not have a goddess or an arch druid or their side to make up for the difference in soldiers and blight.
the Navy is powerful but if it charges ahead with no plan or strategy?
it will be Siege of Lordaeron all over again.
Remember Sylvanas is with no morals, she’ll gladly rain the Blight down upon the enemy while her own soldiers are still there if it means total Victory.
and without Jaina? Or someone of similar power.
the Blight would destroy any army.
Anduin and Genn’s plan would had worked on anyone else but the Banshee Queen, which is why it failed she view everything as an arrow in her quiver to be fired when needed.
she’s the polar opposite of Anduin.
1 Like
That Sylvanas is insane and only understands force?
1 Like
I would link the FLYING SHIP VIDEO that literally saved the alliance from completely failing their assault.
but it seems you understand.
the alliance is indeed very and I mean very dependent upon their Op characters.
as for Sylvanas never doing anything wrong, depends Moral scale or cold strategy scale?
It however seems you no longer wish to have an actual discussion which is a shame, I would had liked to know a serious a response to the points made.
for any serious forum poster the points were the following:
-Anduin’s inexperience in war shown and his growth later in the new raid.
-striking quickly means leaving one self just as ill Prepared.
-the Blight portrayed at the siege of Lordaeron is an army killer.
-the Alliance power level of some Heroes, Malf, Tyrande, Jaina.
Except she uses very little force.
I won’t argue the Insane part though.
1 Like
Oh my god, we are debating Sylvanas for a change!
5 Likes
I will have a go.
He shoudnt even be in charge of the militery operation.
But even with him being in charge we are still talking about undercity.
He has generals, advisers, people with enought experiance to tell him:
No bad andiun. You do not try and capture undercity unprepared.
Sylvanas create’s the blight there.
Even if we catch her by suprise it is still a place full of blight creating machines.
You dont rush dangerous terrian like that.
I thought you of all people would know the value of restraint.
Victorious warriors win first and then go to battle.
Defeated warriors go to battle and then try to win.
Sun-tzu.
Again andiun inexperiance would only be a factor if he was unwilling to lissen to anyone with militery experiance.
And has been known about for years and yet people still arent prepared to deal with it.
Power is relevant.
None of the alliance heroes are unkillable.
Malfurion master druid and expert on nature magic get taken out by an axe in the back.
Tyranda favorite of elune.(and to be fair the fact elune care’s for her makes her the most dangerous weapon in the alliance as she has a goddess on speeddail.)
And jaina is very powerfull but still human.
A well placed arrow will kill her same as anyone else.
The thing is.
The entire war of thorn could only work via the idiot ball.
Tyranda sending most her forces away.
Andiun ignoring entire coucil’s of vastly superior militery experiance to feed his ego.
If either of these things didnt happen what do you think would have happend.
What if tyrande had send her forces to ashanvale in preparation to invade the horde if they didnt pull out of silitus(aka politics)
or if andiun had accauly remember he was fighting sylvanas blight windrunner.
Who he himself considers unredeemable and knows she is capeable of horrifying things and accauly prepared a proper seige.
Battle for Lordaeron was a bait and Anduin fell for it. It is not surprising given his history, having absolutely 0 experience in warfare. It was only predictable that Undercity would be hit and other Alliance leaders not foreseeing Sylvanas already being prepared for it is just laughable. Following High King on his decision is one thing, but not giving any battle plan? Not very convincing.
As in new raid, we see Anduin making the decision to strike, while more experienced characters design how that goal would be achieved.
Anduin has long way to go. But nonetheless my Dwarf warrior wont hesitate to fight for his cause ![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue:")
I would disagree. Its very questionable how Horde managed to get Undercity evacuated, their forces mobilised from Northern Kalimdor, compared how slowly news about Teldrassil reached Stormwind and their forces being late to the party, having to deal with fortified city. So either Anduin did not strike quickly and went without any plan whatsoever, or it happened because plot demanded it.
Not news? Strangely though, since battle for Lordaeron, we have not seen Sylvanas or forsaken using Blight anymore in BFA. Makes me wonder if she has lost her blight development sources with Undercity, or rather used so much in BoL that she is replenishing her stock, but the question is where?
It has always been like that since the beginning of latest Alliance and Horde formation (Vanilla), Horde trying to establish themselves on Azeroth, opposing the megapower - Alliance. Horde each race being outcasts and misfits whos goal was survival and safety of their people. Chased down and scorned by members of Alliance, they united to ensure their survival. Somewhere along the game roles reversed and Horde became aggressive faction while Alliance stopped hating Orc’s and forgot the betrayal of Elves. Now you get the story Horde Challenging the power beyond their comprehension . Go figure. ![:roll_eyes:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/roll_eyes.png?v=6" ":roll_eyes:")
Indeed you do not.
You know what else you do not do?
Over-swarm the enemy capital with an army of spies, spies are effective when the enemy does not know about them.
from Before the Storm til the Battle for Dazar’alor this is all Anduin growing as a ruler and a war general.
He assumed Sylvanas was afraid to use the Blight because of Heroes like Saurfang would strike her down was his belief, likely.
what we also see is just how Sheltered Anduin was, how green he is and most of all naieve.
There is a good Reason why Sylvanas is not afraid of him nor respects him at present time.
He sits upon a Throne of Gold which was build upon the hard work of noble heroes War veterans and other means.
all the things Anduin is not, he is a preacher not a war general.
Even during the Legion’s world invasion were he sheltered by his advisers.
Something he thankfully noticed in time.
You can say he shouldn’t be in charge, guess who took upon the mantle of leadership at his age though?
Thrall or Go’el as he goes by now.
He is now the surpreme commander of the Allied forces of the Alliance, and while there are indeed people more suited for the role.
the role also serves as a political statement of the City states but most importantly the Throne of Stormwind.
a battle is already decided before it has even Begun too.
True, but who says he is being guided proper though?
as shown in Before the Storm Anduin has little trust of his advisors.
even though Mathias Shaw hinted to both Anduin and Greymane the strangeness of the plan of letting Sylvanas know they were watching, seemed to pass the boy as a whole.
and most importantly you have to remember that none of Anduin’s Seniors share his view of the Horde.
Heck Rogers would and I don’t even think this is an exaggeration burn down Horde Villages one by one just to fuel her hatred.
Wyrmbane has shown to be fine with using even the Void, because it is effective.
and I mean he has made extreme much use of it, from portals to raising of dead animals and other means. and he is a Paladin for crying out loud.
Technically speaking if the Night elf rulers weren’t power houses the Horde would destroy the Night elves.
Just like the only thing that kept the Alliance from taking Lordaeron was the Forsaken Plague.
also I’ll need to correct you it was not most of her forces, it was most of her senior forces.
the more experienced fighters the veterans and so on.
meaning a Minority of the Night elven Army.
I would also point out that Malfurion’s presence is literally the only reason the Horde didn’t just walk all the way up to Teldrassil in one smooth march or so.
they attacked with eight times as big an army as the entire night elven army mind you.
and this is what I means by Character Growth, Anduin tried to play the Heroic war general himself and failed, this taught him humility and he has clearly began to listen more to more experienced officers.
First of all the Horde used portals to reinforce undercity and barely managed to make any proper defense there was only token forces from the other Nations besides the forsaken.
Fortunately there are not many many civilian forsaken as a whole.
so evacuations went swift, though we do see Brill raised to the ground and no sign of the civilians that lived there.
it’s still in use you can find it in Nazmir as alliance during invasion, and some world quests has horde heroes apply them at ‘key’ locations
Not so much such, as the current leadership is just not very much in touch with their people, I mean Anduin will literally tell you the Alliance Hero next update that ETERNAL peace is near because you are standing to win the War.
Not taking into consideration the bad blood the war and other wars has created.
Anduin is an Idealists detached from reality at times I fear.
1 Like
Token forces from other nations who do not belong in EK! Using portals to transfer the troops has always felt bit meh. While it was possible for horde to move the forces that quickly, surprisingly Alliance could not think of doing so to support Kaldorei. I dont know man.
Silly me, for expecting some logical storytelling from Blizzard.
What I meant is that I dont know how the F Horde is pulling this full scale war against Alliance and then complain about Power Level of Alliance characters.
Ideals are what makes dreams come to reality. He’s just inexperienced in the ways of achieving it.
1 Like
And yet none of this is shown in game.
Blizzard really need to stop putting important stuff in novels only.
I am mostly going to counter the night elves as i will agree you andiun being too shetlered.
I am going to disagree with you on this.
The entire reason blizzard makes them power houses is because they cant do war(as has been proven)
An army of master ambushes with powerfull nature allies.
Screw that is too hard lets just emo up tyrande and have her one shot armies in one cutscene.
Even if this was the case they are using the power houses poorly.
Tyrande being a master healer cant heal malfurion on the spot?
The chosen of elune cant rain starfire on the horde indefinitly?
Accauly the only thing stopping the alliance from invading is because they dont want a war with the rest of the horde.
That is the entire reason the forsaken are part of the horde.
They need to make war on them to costly to consider.
And yet she send them away to silitus because ???
Minority of how many?
Hunderds? Thousents? millions.
I mean 10.000 years leave alot of time to grow a population.
Even with slow aging elves.
And this is where we get into why the idiot ball arguement hold.
Malfurion is one druid.
Powerfull yes but a druid.
The night elves have entire armies of ents, dryads, mountian gaints, chemera, the forest themself to call upon.
And yet the horde can just move unmolested to the forest.
No missing supply lines, no posion water, no nothing to so much as slow down the horde.
I woudnt mind the night elves losing if they accaully put up a fight instead of just rolling over for the horde.
And ingame it is a small force of 20 or so man curbstomping everything in its path.
Beside an army 8 times that of the night elves?
1: how did the horde who is always starving for resourses manage to get that many warriors without massive food shortage’s, the metal for all there weapons, etc.
2: How did the night elves/alliance miss suchs a build up of troops in the barrens.
3: Why did they send night elves troops away when silifus would take longer to march then to sail while the horde is massing an army in the barrens?
4: Why did tyrande flee with malfurion when she can heal wounds and is a relatively comptent militery leader.
The same tyrande we know and love for the defiance.
It is total out of charater for her to just pack up and leave when here people are under attack.
8 times the army of the highly militeriast theocracy that is the night elves wouldnt be able to substain itself on the meager yeilds of the horde lands.
And even if it could.
Why didnt the alliance had border fortress in ashanvale.
After garrosh you would think they atleast had fortresses on the border between the barrens and ashanvale.
Even if for other reason then an early warning system.
So much of war of thorn require us to believe that tyrande of all people trusted the horde not to invade her nation despite them already having done so three times?
I do not believe the night elves are invincable and i fully agree that when so heavly outnumbered and lead by sylvanas windrunner the horde would conquer ashanvale and darkshore.
But the way it was handle was insulting to night elves everywhere.
They send forces away, there godlike leaders leave the night elves to there fate and there nature allies are nowhere to be seen.
Ow and they fight like human troops by charging head first into battle rather then ambush tatic’s.
Really poorly shown ingame and zero thoughts given on how stupid the night elves look for falling to the horde so easly.
1 Like
Not to consider that it was a battle on Night Elven territory. Whole Northern Kalimdor is Night Elven populated. Not a single Draenei group was sent to assist.
Everything was done to make it seem Night Elves stood alone, against whole Horde and that is the only comfort I find in this war.
1 Like