[SPOILERS] Eternal Palace - New Cinematic

Argent Dawn
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I mean it won several awards and garnered a lot of critical appraise when CDPR told it in Witcher 3, so I’m sure the execs at Blizzard are pulling their hair trying to figure out why fans didn’t like it when Jaina got it

303

idk where you read that, but this is very :zzz: as it sounds like someone taking bfa-hate memes too seriously. you even have the bit about wod being better

-> agrees to bring the war to an ultimatum
-> the price of war is too high
-> inner conflict finally resolved, decides to help the horde
-> attempted assassination fails
-> follows the trail of other assassins to find old friend
-> they return to hear that baine (the dude everyone complained is too quiet, remember that?) has finally started doing things and is representing his thoughts through action
-> sylvanas mystery plan cooking in the background, she allows events like these to transpire as if she’s orchestrated them
-> we wait for further developments

How hard is it to decipher, lmao? What is your :eye: of N’Zoth revealing that we unchosen cannot see?

IDK man you’ve gotta roll a pretty high charisma check to convince me that this fairly straight-forward story isn’t coherent. The Baine example is the best in this case: people complained that he’s too meek and quiet & does absolutely nothing to show where he stands on this conflict other than 1 begrudging look in the Undercity throne room.

A patch later, Baine is doing exactly what people begged for and they’re even more displeased. It’s like, sorry for not fulfilling your perfect fanfic, at this stage, with no room for compromise as seen by Yue.

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304

How many times did Saurfang 180 in the course of that event chain?

305

Okay:
When was Saurfang freed? 'cos it was changed after implimentation.
How and why was Zekhan in Redridge?
How did Saurfang know about assassins going after Thrall?
How’d he even get into Outland?
How’d he track Forsaken assassins that can turn invisible at will?
How’d he get back to Orgrimmar? How’d he get INTO Orgrimmar?
How’d he know about Baine?

None of these questions have satisfying answers - ironically for all your complaining about fanfic, you need to fanfic the answers - and they all speak to a character who knows what he needs to know and is where he needs to be by virtue of the storyteller needing him there, not because it makes sense or is supported.

Saurfang knowing everything and teleporting everywhere isn’t “coherent”.

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306

Twice, the thing after Teldrassil, which he never agreed with. And when he decided to go against Sylvanas and escaped from prison.

It’s called being an old war veteran who’s been around and have experience, was probably not all too difficult tracking them for someone like him.

307

-> voiced great displeasure for a genocide but still stuck through it, not 180
-> first real 180 during battle for undercity which, while I could go to lengths to try and reason it, will admit was sorta dumb
-> everything else has been him consistently ‘this is not what the horde stands for’

so 1

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Ah of course, I forgot that in between strategy and axe classes Saurfang took a minor course in SEEING THROUGH INVISIBILITY.

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No, but he can hear, follow tracks.

Both Thrall and Saurfang noticed their footsteps when they ran towards them.

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But why would he? Why would he be looking for them? Why would he assume there were assassins going after Thrall to track in the first place?

And how did he then get ahead of them but completely fail to mention them to Thrall when they meet?

This is coherent?

311

I don’t know if he originally followed them when he Went for Thrall, but he started noticing them on his way, who knows?

Hopefully Blizzard will explain this, but I highly doubt it.

Easy, they came Before Saurfang, but stood in wait if anything was gonna happen that would go under their order for attack, which clearly happened.

312

I can’t even pretend to care about how Saurfang tracked the Forsaken assassins. The story is bad enough as it is, why would you want time wasted on useless info?

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Sure was nice of him to tell Thrall.

Except he didn’t stick with it, did he? He walked out to go die on his own, then got convinced by Zekhan to come back (Old Soldier), then deliberately let Anduin live so Anduin could kill Sylvanas (BFA Intro), then he found out about the blight-Undercity plan so he decided to go suicide again (Battle for Lordaeron Scenario).

Then he gets an opportunity to escape the stockades, and rejects it. Then, despite the Horde as a whole being totally okay with Teldrassil he decides that he wants “his” Horde back (which Horde is that again?) and decides to fight for it, but only after getting a pep talk from Anduin. I guess he’s just more compelling than Rokhan?

It doesn’t help that with the new placement of the Saurfang escape quest it now seems that he left not because of Teldrassil or Dazar’alor or any of that but…because of Derek getting raised. Which I guess he somehow also found out about with his magic “know everything” powers.

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314

The one that isn’t ruled by a psychopathic genocidal f*ckwit of an elf with zero regard for anyone but herself.

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Apparently the Horde is a-okay with being ruled by said psychopathic genocidal elf though. They sure didn’t let that little instance of GENOCIDE bother them much.

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316

So all he cares about is who sits on the throne? “I want my Warchief back” sounds better then.

Pretty much.

And if anyone actually deigned to point this out to him maybe it’d be an acceptable character flaw but unfortunately the way it’s framed by the narrative says that he’s CORRECT and that all they need to do is get rid of Sylvanas and then everything will be good and fine again.

I guess Thrall will just unburn Teldrassil and ress everyone ez-mode.

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317

These are probably some of the most nitpicky questions I’ve seen. I have always said one thing: a story that is written as if it’s a science paper, is a bad one. Like, what do you mean how did he get into Orgrimmar? Do they have passport checks at the gates or something?

What your questions point out is that the story is not 100% in the spotlight, and a lot of it has been left to happen backscreen. Blizzard has always managed to run a single narrative throughout every expansion—they’re trying to juggle, like, 3 right now.

Should I expect more? Sure, I should. I’ve been massively disappointed in lore controversies and how Blizzard is unable to sort them out. I’m also not going to claim that the BfA story is novel-winning. What I’m definitely not going to do, though, is nitpick a fairly ok story for the sake of trying to nerd my way into ‘uGH this all SUCKs’. I’m getting very Star Wars vibes from arguments like these.

Woe be that a character is given temperamental traits. I guess you’ve never met people who are easily swayed?

As someone who RPs fairly controversial characters, re: characters that think they know what’s best for others, but really, they don’t. I can confidently say that this is (without bias) a good story :+1:

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318

I dunno maybe the fact that he’s an infamous orc and is currently persona non grata as a traitor who’s apparently kill-on-sight and actively being hunted by assassins? It’s just as bad as Jaina being able to teleport into Orgrimmar - sacrificing universe integrity for hurrying along a story.

Sorry that you have to fanfic to make it seem good.

Moody: Saurfang 180’d a bunch and isn’t coherent.
You: Saurfang didn’t 180.
Me: Saurfang 180’d constantly - here’s how.
You: Him 180’ing is actually good writing.

See above - the narrative is painting him as correct, not as a misguided individual. The rebel side is sympathetic and kind and given multiple cinematics about how Good and Right they are.

At every step the player is given the chance to jump ship to the rebel side - not so for switching to loyalists (you’re locked in to the Good Guy Rebellion once there).

All of this is Blizzard is communicating to the player that, yes, Saurfang is right, not that “he thinks it be that way but actually it don’t”.

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319

That can’t be right.

He went from marching on Teldrassil with the intent to kill Malfurion to not wanting to kill Malfurion after he put an axe in his back.

Then he went from defecting and not wanting to protect UC to protecting UC to save Horde soldiers to surrendering and allowing the Alliance to kill Horde soldiers.

Then he went from fleeing Stormwind with the help of SI:7 to “I don’t work with SI:7” to “Let’s work with SI:7 to free Baine”.

That’s a lot of flip-flops for Varok “looks good but it’s wrong” Saurfang

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320

why doesn’t jaina hyperspeed ram the kul tiran navy (which she can subconsciously magically cause to levitate) into orgrimmar, thus ending the Horde threat once and for all?

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321

Because she’s not part of Kirin Tor anymore, Dhadgar is the leader.