Story Forum Offtopic Lounge pt. 2

Nothing, it says 945 on my computer.

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I can give you mine if i get new one!

i claim it for Gilneas.

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I donā€™t really think either Faction is Imperialistic as such, though some of the constituent species are.

Humans: Not -really- I mean aside from their initial expansion taking Gnoll land they just kind of stayed put.
Dwarves: Alright, a little bit, but not much.
Gnomes: Not at all.
Night Elves: They -had- an Empire, but are not Imperialistic by the time of the games.
Worgen: Gilneas was the very epitome of an insular, non-expansionist nation.
Tushui: Yes, they were part of an Empire, but that was just the style of government, it was by definition, non expansionist.

Horde?
Orcs: Tricky, we know they like conquest, however it seems to be much more like the mongol horde type thing, smash and grab rather than hold land.
Trolls: Like the Night Elves, they -had- an Empire, they donā€™t anymore (Despite what pretty lies the Zandalari might tell themselves)
Tauren: Not at all an Imperial or Expansionist power, and shows no interest in being so.
Forsaken: Hereā€™s the biggest one, I think they are. Not by intent, but by nature. Iā€™ll try to explain. They canā€™t procreate normally, a fact Sylvanas is well aware of, their future as a ā€˜speciesā€™ requires the deaths of others. They have to expand and conquer, to maintain their species, Iā€™m not even sure it is a territorial thing, but a ā€˜biologicalā€™ imperative to keep existing. Iā€™m trying to think of the word for it, there is a medical term, something that has to keep expanding as otherwise it is done for, but yes, you could call the Forsaken Imperialistic in that regard.
Sinā€™dorei: Like the Gilneans, they are kind of the epitome of ā€œLeave us alone and weā€™ll leave you aloneā€ after the initial land grab of Quelā€™thalas from the Amani they seem to have no interest in expansion.
Goblins: Why rule the world when you can buy it? Seriously though, they do not seem interested in territorial holdings, only fiscal holdings, theyā€™re like the old banking houses, they donā€™t need turf, theyā€™ve got money.
Huojin: No imperial interests whatsoever.

So really, it isnā€™t that the Alliance or Horde is Imperialistic. Neither organisation, at its core, is. Races within it may be, Orcs love to smash and conquer, Forsaken ā€˜needā€™ to harvest bodies, I donā€™t really know what the Dwarves are up to with sending people all over the place, though it probably is all about Titan relics.

Neither side is really Imperialistic, so whilst it is a convenient thing for the Horde to claim, or the Alliance, neither is really true.

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Thanks for your clarification.

I have some questions, since you are more inside the lore than I do.

Is it possible, in a future war narrative, because I donā€™t believe we have seen the last of it, since apparently Activision Blizzard believes the faction conflict to be a integral part of WoW, to portrait the Alliance as the aggressor and not the Horde ?

Honestly as a player that loves Thrall Horde itā€™s pissing me off, seeing the core values thrown on the mud each time we have a faction war.
Not only that we see irreplaceable characters as Cairne and Volā€™Jin killed.

I am not much in to Blood Elf lore, as you are, but my highest level characters are blood Elves and I agree with Erieven, I didnā€™t like to see Kaelā€™thas turned in to a raid boss instead of being handled a arc redemption by his people, that were now part of the Horde.

The historical approach of a more imperialistic Alliance doesnā€™t work, what else would you suggest ?
The alternative, after reading the replies, is just going back to Cataclysm and BfA formula and since only Forsaken and Orcs can be aggressive enough, to start a war that I conclude, the next conflict will be Cataclysm 2.0 with Garrosh 2.0.

Iā€™ve read your post about Tauren lore, so my other question is, could a expansion war be based off in the US story ?
I mean their conflict with the American natives and their south counterparts ?

In this scenario, the Tauren and Blood Elves would lead the Horde.
Not Forsaken or Orcs.
The Tauren would have historically similar leaders as Sitting Bull, while the Blood Elves characters like General Lee.
The Alliance would have characters like Union Generals.

I think thereā€™s s lot of common history between the former High Elves and the Alliance that could be further explored and hasnā€™t been.
Like a North and South narrative.

I mean a attempt to bring faction wars to a more realistic, tactical level.
Without silly battle turnovers because of weapons of mass destruction, chemical weapons and God like characters.

Cheers.

The Alliance has been the aggressors in the past. But with the current writer mindset, and how narrow minded they are regarding the Alliance, every past event has been consistently whitewashed, pardoned, or ignored.
To the point they villainise those that further push for repercussions regarding it.

Also, these are also often deliberately overshadowed by some worse Horde action that makes them seem meek in comparison.

Take for example the invasion of Dazarā€™alor.

The Alliance is shown attacking a purposely demilitarised outpost after baiting the enemy army out, while also summoning forbidden elementals that were used as a serious war crime in the past. Or by twisting nature and wildlife by using the powers of the Old Gods.

ā€¦But it doesnā€™t really matter. Because the Horde had already been shown decimating a civilian population in the most gruesome and explicit way.

The Alliance is aggressive often enough. But it gets a pass because for every time writers feel like making them behave as such, they also feel the urge to make the Horde do something worse.

Look at Stormheim. The Alliance tried to kill the head of state of the enemy faction at a time when they were supposedly working together.
And there are still arguments in its favour. It gets a pass simply because itā€™s Sylvanas.

Had the Horde tried to explicitly kill Anduin or Varian; we wouldnā€™t hear the end of it.
I mean, we just have to look at the Broken Shore scenario. And in that case the Horde wasnā€™t even doing it on purpose.

Yeah, there is aggression. But there are also some blatant double standards when it comes to writers.

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I mean, it would be really easy to give us a normal war. But Blizz is going for rule of cool and shock value.

Thereā€™s enough bad blood and moral grayness in both faction for both of us to bear some stigma.

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Funny how the only way to bring the faction war to a more realistic and tactical level is by writing off the two dimensional spaceships that can teleport entire armies across worlds. I canā€™t even blame Blizzard for ignoring the Vindicaar. It makes the game more fun instead of too much onesided.

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Yrel is still waiting for us to call her! I am thinking that she will personally come to Azeroth at some point, not impressed with how weā€™re killing each other like they did in WoDraenor.

Agree.

Look what that kind of thinking, brought to Battlefield 5.
Can anyone find this trailer a realistic description of World War 2 conflict ?

I think thatā€™s what happens when you let your artists go wild on the drawing board.

The same can be said with respectful differences regarding WoW.

When your armies is outmanoeuvred, you donā€™t get to call a plot device or character that literally nukes a entire army.
Because than they should rename this game as World of Marvelcraft.

The player character is a super hero.
I mean we already have super powers, can fly and react faster than any normal soldier and kill dozens of enemies on our own.

The pattern of a 40 man army, that would ride to raid a dark place has vanished.
Replaced by 25 super heroes capable of downing a titan, maybe one day Sargeras itself.

EDIT:
Somethingā€™s that could had been explored, in the different battles in BfA but were not:

  • Battle for Undercity.
    The fact that the walls that surround the once magnificent, human kingdom, no longer offer the proper protection, due to lack of maintenance, by the Forsaken.
    The bulk of the defending army been made out of Forsaken, which the Alliance use in their advantage, putting Paladins in the front, due to their light power advantage against the undead.
  • Night Elves not having Paladins on their ranks and finding out that Forsaken troops are resilient to arrow fire.
    Druids entrapping Forsaken, pulling them to the ground beneath only to find they come back again.
  • The Horde forces not being able to assist Undercity in time because of Alliance blockade.
  • The Alliance not been able to reach Darnassus, in time, due to Horde blockade.
  • Alliance army more disciplined.
  • Horde forces more prone to break ranks.
  • If the Alliance maintain close ranks (Genn in the cinematic:"Close ranks, advance as one ā€¦) they stomp the Horde, if the Horde breaks Alliance formation (Tauren charge) than the Orcs get insise and start swinging their axes, killing everyone.
  • Gnome/Dwarf technology, used to break the walls of Undercity.
  • No use of blight, instead a careful retreat that ends up in a evacuation through a secret, tunnel beneath Undercity.
  • The Zandalari fleet is beaten in high seas by the Kul- Tyran in a decisive battle as the combined Spanish/French fleet by Admiral Nelson and the British empire.
    Not by silly bombs planted under the Zandalari guards.
  • Horde sustaining heavy losses, in Ashenvale to the point, Sylvanas either decide to retreat and accept defeat or order the catapults to destroy Darnassus before the Alliance reinforcements break the Horde blockade, at sea.
  • Necromancy on fallen troops to restore Forsaken units, back to working condition.

Thatā€™s just some examples.

Cheers.

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Oh no, now the voice actress is starting to deprave. This is what Sylvanas does with people, ladies and gentlemen.

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I burst a rib laughing.

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The difference between GoT and WoW is that at least the GoT actors knew that the last season was horribly written. Mattson has no clue about how bad the lore is apparently.

EDIT

Also, yeah same.

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Iā€™d too bend over backwards to praise that piece of ā€œnarrativeā€ if my job depended on it.

She works for Blizzard, of course sheā€™ll publicly praise their marketing pieces.
I refuse to accept that such a talented actress would willingly and genuinely think that.

GoT actors kinda knew their contracts were done.
I can leave the stinkiest fart when I know Iā€™m leaving the elevator.

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Excuse me, mister Zarao, can I get a source?!

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Voice Actress*

Also, Golden has a cat named Sylvanas. Horde bias!

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She adopted two kittens. The other one is named Anduin.

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The difference between GoT and WoW is that at least Blizzard had a villain commit genocide, not a good guy who was turned into a villain in the span of two episodes all in the name of ā€œsubverting expectationsā€.

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Also Horde bias!

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