I see a lot of negative posts on the forum about the ability pruning in Midnight. But playing sub rogue in the prepatch has been an absolute blast so far. Yes, there are few buttons to press, but when you press them they always feel impactful. Not having dots means our direct damage can hit harder, and that is very satisfying.
I’d like to see a few more shadowy animations, but otherwise this spec is exactly what i would expect from a stealthy assassin class in an MMO. Well done class designers!
Totally agree. With the loss of rupture more damage is front loaded into evic. And with shadow dance now on 20s CD you don’t feel absolutely useless waiting for it maintaining rupture.
Shadow strike with proper talents actually contributes really well to overall damage during dance but backstab still feels utterly useless.. but because dance is 20s it’s usfull more often than not now.
My only issue is without rupture or deadly poison. You can’t stop restealths. That and a few bugs. Deathstalkers mark needs fixed. Still bugged. Stealth randomly falls off as trickster still. No idea why.
Sub is currently very broken in pvp because of this. Basically everything is frontloaded in 1 ability. Hope it gets the nerf bat soon
Yes, so many bugs that still need to be fixed. Not being able to prevent restealths seems like a fair tradeoff for our burst, especially if you consider that we have Cloaked in Shadows to guarantee us a clean restealth even with dots ticking.
Well in fairness the clean restealth is assured by taking the shield on vanishing also. Which does trade 10% dr but in BGs the shield is probably more useful. I dislike having to use one of our major CDs (cloak) just to stealth. Particularly when you have hero tallents that cause cloak to further reduce physical dmg 20% (if that’s not bugged too)
But I do understand and appreciate the trade off of DoT damage being front loaded now instead. However I fear they will funnel damage into auto attacks (why do we even have tallents now for auto attacks) if finishers and Shadowstrike scale too well.
Wait and see. Right now sub is feeling nice.
Also. On the subject of DoTs. I had a 50second dot on me the other day. That is ridiculously long in PvP.
Rupture has been in the game for 20 years and is an important ability in PvP to ensure that the opponent can’t re-stealth.
If you think it’s good game design to dumb the game down to 2 combo point finishers (used to be 5 in vanilla), 3 in war within. Then why don’t you just play with the Single-Button Assistant if it’s too much for you? Honestly.
Look at how miserable feral druids perform in the beta. Trust me, you don’t want to be a dots + evis/bite spec. Midnight arena is all about oneshots again and you’re going to need as much front loaded damage as you can get. Sub is designed just right for the upcoming PVP meta.
The issue isn’t the extra button of rupture making it “complicated”. Far from it. In fact if they made rupture do 100 damage and added it back. I’d be happy. As it would allow you to stop restealth.
The issue was in the last patch rupture damage was actually quite high and that was to mitigate the low damage between dances.
Now that damage is funnelled into finishers and shadow strike. Which feels nicer.
Sub was still really powerful last patch but you had to line up modifiers significantly more than you do now.
Making gloom blade add some other effect would be a good idea. As it stands it’s an iconic ability but never used.
#bringbackshadowyduel
funny to see pvp andys saying pruning was a success, when literally nobody cares about pvp
Admittedly for solo PVE content the rogue class does still need a little stronger self healing.
Sub literally has two filler buttons and three important cooldowns now. It has less gameplay than it had 20 years ago, and that takes some effort. I won’t say anything about PvP, but in PvE, it’s basically a class with one mechanic - hold SD for every even SB (imagine your only mechanic being CDs naturally misaligning through no fault of your own?).
So no, I do not agree that Sub’s pruning was a success. Nor Assa. Both feel like foundations that nothing was built on top of, at all. Outlaw actually has gameplay, even if it’s still rather barebones.
Tuned for max level, which you are not. Nor do you have the correct tier your own class is tuned for.
A rotation is not gameplay. Fighting NPCs and other players is gameplay.
What you really want is for the spec to be too complicated for most players again and feel superior with your GSE macro. Fortunately that will not happen.
It’s such a good prune. It’s so fun and relaxed to play
This is a false dichotomy. Fighting NPCs and other players still utilizes your rotation. A rotation that has five buttons to it, three of which are cooldowns, is no rotation at all. There’s no reactivity and barely any planning. Sub is, in fact, less complex than it was back in 2004, or 2008, or 2012, or any other year of your choosing. It is less complex than Ret Paladin, and that’s insane.
And I don’t even know what GSE means, nor did I have to use any now-redundant macros to play Rogue (outside of Outlaw). If anything, all macros I used on Assa are still fully relevant because DSM is still terribly designed, and the same applies to Sub. Outlaw only really lost the Ghostly Strike macro because Ghostly Strike does not exist anymore (and good riddance).
I’m sorry, but if you’re only using 5 buttons when fighting other players as a rogue, you still have a lot to learn! You might want to start by adding keybinds for Sap, Blind, Gouge, Cheap Shot, Kidney Shot, Kick, Feint, Cloak of Shadows, Evasion, Crimson Vial, Distract, Sprint, Shadowstep, Tricks of the Trade, Dismantle and Smoke Bomb. Hope that helps.
The only challenging solo PvE content is Nemesis delve, where you don’t need much self-healing. And apparently group PvE content does also exist.
And if you’re counting defensives, utility buttons and mobility as part of your rotation, then you are clearly not doing any decently challenging PvE content. These things are something you press outside of your rotation as appropriate to the situation, but to deal damage, you have five buttons and that’s it. On a boss (or in an M+ pack), you’re pressing two buttons 90% of the time, which is not exactly riveting gameplay - and I’m pretty certain Midnight won’t increase boss complexity to cover for that deficiency in class kits.
As for PvP, it seems you’re just enjoying stomping as Sub because you don’t actually need to think to do damage anymore. But then again, PvP is a dead mode that is not really considered in design - only M+ and raids really matter.
Sub is now the beastmaster spec for rogues and that is fine. If you want complexity switch to Outlaw.
Its funny that they basically switched.
Outlaw was once the simple spec and sub the 5 head big brain spec.