[Suggestion] Flying

Yes, but timegating features like flying, ground mounts or running for that matter is really stupid and lazy game design. Timegating is for actual content, like Ogri’la rep, nazjatar, collecting pets whatever. Not removing our gameplay features and having us work to get them back… That isn’t content…

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Regarding that old school cranky player part: I’ve been around since half a year before TBC. I know that we used to buy flying… and I remeber very well that I had to grind almost a month to afford my first ground mount. :smiley:
All in all thing’s have gotten far more bearable since then. :smiley:

I have been subscribed since 2005. First time considering stopping when this heavy time gating crap has taken over every aspect of the game. And for me as customer it’s not relevant excuse if they make profit or not. I pay them for keeping me entertained and if i am not entertained i am not convinced to play just so they would get more profits. That profit argument can be used sarcastic matter or then in their internal meetings, but to actually use it as argument to make people like something (it’s there to make the profit!) doesn’t convince me.

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It’s not meant to convince you. It doesn’t matter if you care about their profit or not. But Blizzard cares and if they don’t get their profit from “Flying in WoW” some other part of the game will be used to generate that profit. If they don’t make any profit at all, the game simply ends.

That is why I’m trying to find a compromise that allows them to make a profit and us to enjoy the game we pay for.

So what is actual content?
I don’t care about dungeons or PvP at all. I want to see the world, help some farmers, enjoy the music and improve my professions…

That’s what i also do in game! I don’t really do dungeons (except some 1-60 when leveling sometimes) or raids, i don’t really pvp (Korraks revenge doesn’t count!), i am open world roamer.
Thing is they did fine profit when they didn’t pull this kind of crap from basic conveniences. They lost lot of subs in “hey let’s remove flying” fiasco in start of WOD, and they made the “compromise” in attempt to get at least some of them back. That still left very bitter feeling for many. I am not against having small quests in palatable amounts available for people who like them, i just don’t think there is any need to compromise on flying. It was fine as it was.

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Most thing in game is content. Flying is not. It’s like saying fast travel in Skyrim is content, it’s not, it’s a way to get around the map once you’ve travelled to each city by foot a gazillion times. Doing the blingtron daily quest is more content then pathfinder. Pathfinder is cruelty, not content.

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One of the most common claims we see is that ‘Flying allows people to ignore the gameworld quests’ (Lets not get into the fact that PvP, Dungeons and Raids allow you to actually -level- whilst doing hardly any quests)

If seeing all the content on the ground is so important (And personally I think it is) then why not have everyone grounded until you get a meta achievement. One that is -already- in the game!

Every zone has an achievement for completing all the major quest chains in that one. By which point you have pretty much seen it all on the ground in that zone. Every Expac has several new zones at least. Why not make it so that you have to get the Achievement for completing -all- the major quest chains, in -all- the New Expac Zones, and that unlocks flying.

No silly timegating, you’ve already engaged with gameworld content, no reps that make no sense ("Ahh, yes, I can see what a people who have lived underwater their entire lives until the last two weeks can teach me about flying, sure…)

Means you fulfil what people whinge about, not seeing it from the ground, and gets rid of the bits pro:fliers whinge about as well… Tie it in to max level as well, and jobs a good 'un. (And I say this as someone definitely pro:flying).

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I still maintain flying should have started and ended in TBC Shadowmoon Valley.

Nah, then World of Warcraft would not accurately reflect Azeroth, which has had flying units in it since WC2. It is why Vanilla is pretty poor from an Immersion point of view, as it lacked the tools necessary to properly portray it as an RPG, given that the game world was incomplete.

It also means you would never have been able to do Ulduar…or, or the Dungeons in ICC.

Or Some of those in Cata, or MoP, or ….Yeah, you know what, Flying is an integral part of Azeroth’s immersion, getting rid of it would need the mother of all retcons right up to the very first RTS games…

I think not…

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So flying is integral to World of warcraft with all those reasons you stated?

Immersion. To be fully immersed you need to fly.
To portray it as an RPG. You need to fly. No RPG in the world lacks a flying feature.
You cant do Ulduar without flying. I can’t even begin…
ICC dungeons? OHHHHH I see what you are trying to justify. You mean you wouldnt be able to get there. Ok got it. Not like Blizzard could put in a bridge or a set of stairs or some other system. So you NEED to fly there. OK…

So yeah adding some little bits here and there to make it slightly more easier to access an instance would require an ENTIRE reboot of the game.

Jesus tap dancing Christ the lengths pro flight people will go to to try and justify the need to get to a to b in 2 seconds instead of 5. However WOULD you get that few minutes of your life back…

Oh. And if flying was as integral to Azeroth as you claim, why did it take utp level 70 on the 2nd expansion for it to be implemented? Or can it be you simply want to fly everywhere because the thought of having to avoid enemies hell bent on removing your head from your shoulders so they DON’T smack you off as you charge through at least 50 enemies on a land mount not immersive enough?

Just reminds me of the idiots who wailed “WHY BLIZZARD WHY DO YOU ALLOW DEMONS IN ARGUS AND NAGA IN NAZ’JATAR TO DAZE ME AND SLOW ME DOWN WHEN I CHARGE THROUGH THEM!! THAT SHOULDN’T HAPPEN!! IT’S NOT IMMERSIVE or whatever I WANT IMMERSION!! LET ME FLY!!”

Yeah because simply flying over them rather than avoiding a zone filled with enemies that presumably should be there is far more immersive.

Because you have a low functioning level of reasoning. There is not a single valid argument to be against flying. If you’re against flying because you want everybody to be dazed dismounted 500 times on the way to each world quest, then you need to be against ground mounts, flight masters, flight masters whistle, running instead of walking ,speed potions, charge, heroic leap, invisibility potions, and so forth. If you are, congratulations, but don’t ruin my gameplay causer you’re a masochist.

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Well, yeah, I mean it kind of -is-.

Try getting there without Flying. I mean they -could- rewrite all those zones that need it, but lets be honest, how keen do you think Blizz would be on doing that, when a mechanic already exists?

I dunno, How did they forget an entire Continent that existed in WC3 until the 3rd expansion? Or an entire species that had existed since WC2?

Nah, which is why in my initial suggestion you would have to do all the ground questing before you got flying… It’s not really much different from a Flight Path in that regard, you can just scoot from A to B, or close to B. I mean we never see these complaints about people using Dungeons, Raids or PvP to actually level up, do we, people seem perfectly happy with ‘convenience’ when it suits their playstyle, yet scream blue murder when someone elses playstyle is allowed.

Charge into vast amount of mobs and -not- expect to be dazed? Yeah, that’s just silly. But that is nothing to do with flying. Unless you want to ascribe the same logic towards Flight Paths.

When we know that people can do that in World of Warcraft? Yeah, that is more immersive actually. You should however have to -work- to get that privilege, as I said. This way people would actually have to get out there, in the world, and do the quests. It would make the game world fuller, if people couldn’t just level by sitting in Org/SW and wait for queues to pop, because that sure as heck ain’t immersive.

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I really should disregard that as I would an insect in the mud but for once I’ll indulge you.
I just gave you some. See the main point? You missed it. Here it is again.You should be AVOIDING!!! A for Alpha… V for Victor… O for Os… oh you get it. I hope You want to go charging into enemies 500 times and expect NOT to be dazed or slowed regardless of what you typed in that list then i have no hope and if that was all you could muster… Utterly pathetic.

Oh and son. Your gameplay doesn’t matter to me. NO ONE’s gameplay matters to me, because I don’t pay their sub and dictate to them what they can or can’t do/ What matters to me is MY gameplay. Like my gameplay doesn’t matter to you. All I have done is suggested quite rea…sa…nob…ly… that flying is NOT integral to WoW and it is VERY easy to get around Azeroth without it. Again. in case you missed it the 1st time. You open your eyes and avoid stuff. If you choose NOT to, thats on you. Blizzard even give you a hint on loading screens for Christ’s sake.

How do I know this? because I use my flying mounts slightly less times than I bet on a tortoise to win Ascot. Ergo if I do happen to be riding around and I happen to see a large mob of enemies, i’ll and here it is again… Avoid them. Therefore i won’t be dazed. What did you do before you could fly? Charge right into them? 2nd time again for that. That’s on you.

Finally. Masochist? No. I’m just intelligent enough to know what will happen if I try to smash through a road block of angry nagas Mad Max style. You wanna fly over them? Knock yourself out. I’ll drive round em. But please don’t try and tell me by doing so I’m somehow ruining YOUR game experience because if you are, you are insulting both of our intelligence.

To end, I don’t really care if you fly or not, because as I have already said and made it perfectly clear a lot of times on these forums and others, I don’t care what you do with YOUR game. You don’t care what i do with mine, and if you do, then don’t. Seriously… If you like Flying (or not I don’t know for sure) knock yourself out. I don’t see it as a necessary part of the game. I see it as a bonus,

But never again suggest to me that it is a necessary part of the game to avoid getting dazed or slowed on any mount form.

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You’re crazy, tldr. If this is the best representative of the anti-flyers, then i rest my case. xD

Except when it comes to them not be allowed to fly? :roll_eyes:

Well this descended into chaos quickly.

It’s not actually complex, I’ve just given some mechanical details in the course of being thorough.

The TL;DR is - Summon mount > fly until your mount is exhausted > parachute down to earth > wait for CD. Items gathered from completing content improve efficiency in a choice-based meaningful way up until the full unlock.

Using BFA as the example
While the actual meta pathfinder can be “token-gated” if blizzard wish, this is farmable to a specific point but will come naturally to all e.g. with 6 factions friendly/honoured/revered/exalted would yield 24 tokens, 10 dungeons would yield 26 (-4 due to KR and SoB being mythic only at launch), 6 zones giving 12, 6 for exploration and 6 for story, add in some objects, war campaign, world quests and you’re 50% done.
50% efficiency gives; 190% speed, 35s duration, 5.5m CD
Enough of a boost to act as a flight whistle.

I think it would be awesome if they locked flying behind a max level quest line.

Maybe with some amount of time gating (e.g. your mount needs to rest for the day, since it is just getting used to the new environment).

Something simple and funny, like flying through loops, handling turbulences and perhaps even fighting of those giant flying dinosaurs that roam the island. :slight_smile:

I wasn’t necessarily thinking of time gating the bulk of it as above but I like you idea and it’s those sorts of things I would hope could be incorporated into the system, tokens from reaching locations you need flight to get too, specific flying based world quests, things such as the flying through hoops.

My intention may have got lost in the mechanics, the intent it to make it grindable for those people who want to, up to a point, but still to naturally occur for those who don’t and doing it in an content driven way.

Parts of this post added to original for clarity

It seems not many people like the idea but I appreciate the feedback non-the-less.

The proposed system sounds even more of a chore than Pathfinder.

Laden Flight… Then I think we need Swallow mounts :wink:

I’m sorry but what you propose is even worse. Whilst I would love to go back to flying at max level I doubt very much we will ever see that return.

They gate flying from a period of the expansion until it can be unlocked via the Pathfinder achievements. This means part of the player base enjoy a period without flying and the other part get to enjoy a period with flying. Neither side is happy all of the time. This is the nature of compromises.