Survival, and why Blizzard wants us to melee


I have been playing since 2007. My first character was a hunter. It’s my preferred main since I’ve started playing and I felt very connected with what the class represented at it’s core.
The core hunter experience I was sold was a ranged spec with different flavors. You know, like mages or warlocks but a physical damage dealer. It’s a ranged spec. Stuff like Winged Clip work as Frost Nova. They’re ocasional melee tools. Not the building blocks of a full spec.

For reference I raid on a not very hard core guild but we still feel obliged to push our classes to the best so we do steady progress.

Why was it so important to mutate one of the specs into melee? Why am I now being “forced” into melee because Blizz made it become the highest DPS for AoE and sustained cleave? What’s with hunters that we can have a spec butchered to slot in a melee spec and mages and locks can’t be bothered as well? Giving rogues a ranged spec makes sense? Does Blizz want to reduce the hunter population by creating a divide between hunter players (no doubt people that play surv will feel cheated if Blizz removes the spec, the irony)?
Couple that with the actual unfathomable fragility of the spec and people might wonder where Blizz’s heart for hunters is.

Does anybody else here feels cheated by Blizzard?

/rant off


Far from it. I personally love having the option of melee, feels primal to go into combat with a mighty Kodo by my side and spear in my hand.
Plus with harpoon it’s like being batman going into combat


Have you tried Outlaw Rogue? You know, a melee that can swing into battle like Batman? You even have a legendary quest (can’t remember the expansion) that gives you gear that procs a bat wings animation. Like Batman!!!

You would appreciate Rogue a lot. Go try it. It’s a melee class. Quite as it was sold in the beggining.


I played survival last season as well and I basically started enjoying Hunter since I had the chance to play that way. Also as a shaman I love to be able to play melee as well as ranged. More gamestyle choices is not a bad option per se, it is only if you feel obliged to follow a path that is not the one you prefer.


when u do certain things its not a option, but rather the only valid thing u can do, if it was a option i would agree…

thats exactly there problem, hunters only got 1 valid spec for key push atm, depending on what u consider key push ofc. go to IO and sort keys after 25 and up.

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MM is still a very good m+ spec, it’s probably the best it’s been in m+ in a very long time. So to say we only have one valid spec is crazy. If SV wasn’t as overtuned as it is right now we would see MM hunters even in extreme high keys. People are only not playing it because they might as well just play SV instead.

i pug keys, and i try do some tiny push as i call it, i dont have a premade, so i do the best i can. atm at 23s. with surv. players looking for dps wants surv. LF SURV/LOCK is very common.

AS bm i get decline/kicked, and as mm i get decline atleeast 90%,as surv i kinda get instant inv. to say we got a option is LIE.

What moron has time to waste 90% moree time when signing for keys.


…But that’s not an issue with MM? That’s an issue with community perception.


ofc it is a mm problem, it dosnt scale as well as surv on bigger pulls.

MM is is hardcaped no matter how big u pulll.

And to say theree is no issue with MM or BM for that matter because thats a community perception as you say, is bs. in the end ur forced to go surv. so it is a issue.

MM is still a VERY strong m+ spec despite this. Uncapped pulls just don’t happen often w hen pushing keys. Gambit first area, some halls pulls, not much outside of that. And in pugs like you say, this is even less likely to happen.

People are not declining MMs because it is a bad spec. They are declining it because they blindly copy top pushing groups and know no better. Yes, survival is clearly better, but just because survival is insane doesn’t suddenly make MM bad.

Make your own groups and you don’t have to play it? Play with friends and you don’t have to play it? There’s always going to be a better m+ spec for every single class. That doens’t mean you are FORCED to play it. Demonology is an unbelievable m+ spec right, and the only reason it’s not played much is because destro is even more broken. Does that mean they are FORCED to go destro, or that demo is suddenly bad? No.

doing weekly cap for 15s np any spec. u just want vault. any its doable for any spec. even bm.

But if we talk push here, then ur into collecting score from all dungeons, the key is RNG, it can keep on rolling the same stuff u already timed, and could makee climbing on score more than 10 times worse than if u can get inv from random players.

Again playing surv is not a option, it is mandatory…

ANd when i played BM alliance, even if it was my own key, ppl left when i had 23/24 keys when they saw i was BM. so here we talk reeal luxury of not getting inv or ppl leaving ur own groups. talk about fun, ‘‘you can make it work’’ yea by putting in 1000 times more work, how about no.

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If you believe that is ‘mandatory’ then sure.

But MM is a very strong spec and is more than capable of doing basically any key. I have no doubt 28s-29s are completely fine as MM.

Your issue here is not with the specs. It’s with community perception of specs and how people make groups. And no amount of buffs will ever fix that. You will ALWAYS feel like one spec is ‘mandatory’ with that mindset.

BM wasnt s tier last season or s1 one for that matter, but i made it work somewhat ok.
Its just that surv is so strong atm that not playing surv is stupid. and i kinda agreee.

if i had a real option i would play BM like i did in s1 and 2, and btw bm wasnt good then, but atleeast surv wasnt so good that u only wanted surv, i never have gotten kicked from being BM before this season, never and i never played BM when it was a meta spec, only time i didnt play m+ is bfa s4… ppl have asked oh ur bm, oh thats good score for bm. but now even when i was nr1 bm alliance a couple of weeks ago i got kicked.

Its kinda funny because u can see my score for all specs, and this is my alt btw so u can check. i know the pug experience from all specs.

BM forget it unless u got friends or you are a streamer.

MM forget it unless u got friends or are a streamer.

Surv go play and have fun and try like the spec while at it.

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Yes BM is atrocious.

But do you not see the irony that you are actively contributing to the problem that is frustrating you. You cannot seem to accept that MM is at least a viable spec for basically all keys - and this filters through the playerbase and causes even less invites for people playing MM. So then the issue snowballs even harder.

I am very happy to have a melee option on my main character and I play for longer than you do. In early vanilla hunters used to be about melee weapons aswell, but it was poorly balanced and kinda pointless.

But I don’t understand why you feel forced into SV, MM still looks very viable in any kind of content. I guess you would prefer having only 1 spec ?
Anyway, I am strictly a casual player now.

I do think this game is in a dire need of another class to share our ranged weapons with, though.


Surv has sick burst dmg and sustain dmg and kinda uncaped dmg, and is easy to play and has 15 sec cd on kick and got bl. ( only weakness for surv id say would be spitefull) rest of the affixes dosnt impact surv in a very negative way).

MM got 5 target cap, 24 sec kick cd. it has very good burst, but so do surv. mm is a hardcasting turret. potential dps loss from movement, alot of movement in m+.
MM also has BL but in a clunky annoying way or in a dps loss way.

…and whats your point? Survival is better, nobody is arguing that. But MM is capable of doing basically any key that people are currently running. How is that not ‘Viable’? The gap is nowhere even remotely close to as big as you think.

Surv is not only better, but it fits into more grps as it is a melee with BL. what do i mean by melee? wel then we talk kick cd.

So even if surv wasnt as strong as now surv would been better.

But surv atm is not only stronger it is way stronger, so unless u are a player who got lots of time to toss away on declines You simpley go surv.

If you wanna tryhard MM and getting declines after declines go ahead be my guest.

IF you value your own time and want to be productive go play surv.

You got friends and a valid premade comp for mm? sure try that.

You wanna pug? go surv.

Yet again all of these are issues with community perception and creating groups, not the specs. And meanwhile actively pushing the perception even further…

Wish you luck.

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