Talent Row Setup


I was just talking about fire mage aoe rotation and it struck me how much better it would be if our aoe talents weren’t on one row and utilty on one row and so on.

If you can talent everything towards ST or Aoe/cleave or utilty then classes would feel more powerful in certain situations and the rotations could have more depth.

Instead of choosing you best of each row for a dungeon you can choose what you are bringing to the group. Balance how much ST you need against AOE. Decide which group member needs to bring that certain CC and whether you will need yours.

What you guys and gals think?


Fire already has three rows with AoE-talents
100: Meteor
90: Living Bomb
60: Phoenix Flames / Alexstrasza’s Fury
(30: Blast Wave)

However, I do agree that some control over your char spec would be great, in terms of ST / Cleave / AoE / CC. But overall I just like to have more baseline abilities and matching talents to focus on a certain situation, would be great.

The whole “ability-locked-behind-a-talent” system is quite annoying.

(Icefall) #3

Most of Meteor isn’t actually AoE, the initial Meteor strike for some crazy reason is split between the targets it hits. The ground DoT is AoE but only deals ~15% more damage than a single Flamestrike over 8.5 seconds, it’s pretty pathetic as an ‘‘AoE’’ ability.

No one in their right mind would use Blast Wave as an AoE ability, it’s a minor knockback with some minor damage tacked on. I can’t imagine any tank would be very thankful to you for using a knockback every 25 seconds. Aside from its trivial damage, it competes with Shimmer, which is damned near mandatory in both PvE and PvP.

Phoenix Flames has the unenviable task of competing with Flame On, which is the best all-round talent. By taking PF over FO you get more AoE damage in the short term but end up with less guaranteed Hot Streak crits (especially ones that can be cast whilst casting) in the long run, so that’s less forced Pyros and Flamestrikes throughout a dungeon.

Alexstrasza’s Fury was only worth taking if your first legendary was a Darkcli’s Diadem, after you got another legendary, there was no point using this talent, ever. Now it’s on its own and didn’t inherit the Darkcli’s effect, it’s just plain garbage.

Living Bomb is effectively a wasted GCD outside of 10+ target. Look at the AoE abilities in this game, most of them, especially talented ones are powerful enough to be used in ST.

e.g. Fel Barrage, Bladestorm, Dragon’s Roar, Wake of Ashes, Frozen Orb, Nether Tempest, Sundering, Eye Beam, Blade Dance, Cataclysm, Immolation Aura, Blizzard (Freezing Rain), Comet Storm, Ice Nova, LMT, Wildfire Bomb, Phoenix Flames, Channel Demonfire, Bilescourge Bombers, Phantom Singularity… I could keep going but I think I’ve proven my point.

Then you’ve got Living Bomb, which does the reverse and isn’t worth using even during normal AoE situations, never mind ST. You need a huge number of targets for it to even be worth the GCD, such a situation generally only happens on specific packs or during reaping. Why is there a talent that is worthless 90% of the time?

It feels to me like this is less an issue of the set up of talent rows, and more a lack of baseline AoE abilities and under-powered talents.


Never said they were worth taking in the current state, it was just to point out that some AoE (supposed to…) talents are already spread out over several rows. That’s clearly not the real issue here :slight_smile: .

Simply agreed.

(Icefall) #5

Yeah, that rant was more posited at Blizzard than you :stuck_out_tongue: got carried away. :heart:


At this point, one simple edit and imo fire mage gameplay would be much cleaner overall, not just in AoE:
Make Living Bomb what it was in wrath (Baseline, no cooldown, DoT+Explosion but does not spread, Explosion at the end counts toward Hot Streak when it crits)

(Icefall) #7

I don’t remember LB ever interacting with Hot Streak. But yeah, it was the best version of it, until they capped the targets at 3 :frowning:. I remember doing the trash in ICC and just jumping around spamming LB on every target in sight, good times.

It wouldn’t be so bad if LB actually did proper damage in it’s current form, enough to make it usable on single target. Buff Conflagration’s AoE a bit, add a ST component to Flame Patch and increase the damage of LB to ST viability and we’d be golden.


Its the design of living bomb (which I like) that dictates that it can’t be made strong enough to be effective on ST, it would be insanely powerful in large pulls otherwise.
Only way that could work is if the secondary effect was a % of the primary effects dmg. But I’d rather not have to fit a living bomb into the rotation every 10secs or so anyway.

I want to be able to choose flame patch and living bomb and ideally a boost to mastery in some form.


LB used to have damage in two bits - ticking damage to the target with the bomb and at the end an explosion hitting the primary target and all enemies in 8 yards (no spreading). The second part (which isn’t a damage-over-time effect) used to count toward Hot Streak whenever it crits. This basically made it mandatory to use even on ST fights. I’d like that back. I mean, making things explode is basically the core fantasy of playing a fire mage imo…

(Icefall) #10

Couldn’t agree more. Love the sound of it. My fingers are still crossed for some sort of change, since we’re still so early in the ptr.