Tauren vs Forsaken at Thunderbluff

(Zarao) #41


Didn’t realize that Varimathras and Lothraxion are on the same level.

Unless Lothraxion is playing some serious long game which involves imprisoning his master (Sargeras) and creating a power vacuum within the Burning Legion then this comparison is awful.

(Zarao) #43

Why? Is or isn’t Turalyon (and the Army of the Light) trusting a dreadlord right there?


He has been serving for 1000’s of years compared to like 6? Are you seriously trying to argue this?

I can understand it if it was recent as Varimathras was but this is on a whole different level/scale. He is infused with the Light ffs.

(Araphant) #45

What do you mean? Do you want to say that this isn’t comparable to accepting an original Legion Dreadlord, and have him serve as your right hand, until he manages to almost kill you, hijack your city and destroy your Allies?

You are biased.

(Zarao) #46

Point being, that regardless of the fact that the narrative made one “snap” sooner than the other (if the other gets to snap at all some time in the future), race itself isn’t enough to establish that trusting or being confident around one of their kind, is a bad symptom.

The only thing that keeps lothraxion from going Varimathras on the Army of the Light, is the same narrative that suddenly made the previous co-leader of the Forsaken do likewise.

The same story that had Varimathras suddenly snapping out of Sylvanas control, could make Lothraxion suddenly do likewise with his brainwashed state.

The sweeping statement about “Who would be as stupid as to trust a Dreadlord?” falls quite short when you have one commanding the Army of the Light.


And with the current narrative and where it’s seemingly heading, the above seems less reliable by the day.


The timeframe which you are comparing from is ridiculous. “sooner”? You are comparing a Dreadlord who was forced into the Forsaken at gunpoint and his only loyalty test was to kill his Brother (which in their culture was a pretty serious thing but considering it was staged then this is irrelvant). From that one small test he was able to amass almost half of the Forsaken away from Sylvanas and into his side.

This is to Lothraxion who has been serving for 1000’s of years and is infused with the very thing he is fighting to defend.

Sure, the majority of their race are manipulative and evil. But Lothraxion is clearly in the minority of this. He was infused by the Light (unknown if willingly or unwillingly) and has been serving the Army of the Light for thousands of years. He has fought Turalyon and Alleria as well as recruited them. He helped take down the Burning Legion.

Everything about this is different.

If you are gonna just go back to the defacto “The Writers” then you might as well stop. Everything is down to the writers.

Pro-tip. Varimathras was never under Sylvanas’s thumb. He had his own plans.

Clearly an unique case as from what I said above.

Up to debate. Last time I check AU Draenor is, ya’know, alternate. One example of the Light being used for bad doesn’t taint the entire thing.

Your argument is completely irrelevant.

(Zarao) #48

He was until the sudden twist that made him cease to be.

Sylvanas trusted her control over Varimathras.
Turalyon trusts that Lothraxion is fighting for the greater good.

The contentious issue here isn’t the race. It’s the individual.
The issue isn’t trusting “A Dreadlord”, is trusting a specific one.

Hence why I pointed Lothraxions example. Writers could pull his character under our feet the second they feel like it, because regarding this part:

I wasn’t talking exclusively about the Maghar scenario, but of Xera.
The one that if I recall correctly was praised by and venerated by Lothraxion.
And that ultimately turned to be an enemy too.
Regardless if she/it was light infused or not.

These days, being such means jack.
And this goes some years back with examples like the Scarlets, Benedictus, etc.

(Blunderhoof) #49

Here’s some Tauren lore;

(Kernns) #50

I wonder how Tauren feel about well real cows used by the alliance as cattle, no really the Tauren must free the cows!

Death to the alliance stormwind must burn! mooooo


No, he wasn’t. You have no proof that he was completely loyal. Even in the old RPG has this to say about it.

" Varimathras has seemingly appeared to serve Sylvanas unquestionably ever since that time and now serves as her vizier, working ceaselessly to safeguard the Undercity from all outside threats, especially that of his former masters. The fact that Varimathras still has not betrayed Lady Sylvanas means that she must have a powerful ace up her sleeve, only time will tell what that might be. Then again, it’s possible Varimathras has already betrayed the Forsaken, but how it has happened is not yet known. There are rumors that Balnazzar lives. It is possible that they have some grand scheme to manipulate the Forsaken and reclaim them for the Burning Legion, or for their own faction"

I generally don’t know how you can have this standpoint, and don’t give me the whole “not canon” BS because it was at the time and it shows clear intentions that they were at the very least toying with this idea.

And that backfired. I see nothing wrong with this as she has always overestimated herself going as far back as Warcraft 3 TFT where she could have killed Arthas but instead wanted to gloat to now.

Given how he has already been fighting for 1000’s of years in the AofL then that makes all the difference, espicially when he is infused with the Light.

I disagree with that, the Dreadlords have always been portrayed as manipulative and bad. You just have one unique case where it isn’t.

You can say this about anything. Everything is down to the writers. If they wanted Anduin to blow up the bloody moon they can do it.

Stop clutching at straws and give a proper argument instead of “the writers lolz”.

Yes, the Light has always had a dark side. That isn’t enough to taint the entire side of the Light like I said before.

You are arguing based on theories with no proof and trying to pass it as fact. Stop it. As it stands now Lothraxion is and has not shown to be evil.

Provide me with proof for once instead of relying on whatifs and opinions.

(Zarao) #52

Same could be said about the generalisation about everyone that trusts a Dreadlord is dumb.
The above (which at this point won’t bother expanding anymore), showcases that it depends on the case of the individual at hand.

And the reasons for Varimathras to turn bad, are but some plot contentions that could affect Lothraxion the second the writers feel like it. Not a far fetched scenario, given the latest development for the Light.

The army of the light trusts Lothraxion, and so far it has gone good, and the Forsaken trusted Varimathras, and it turned out bad.
The issue is with the character and the arch written for it. Having but one example that doesn’t follow the rule, brings down the statement that tackles their entire race.

“Everyone that trusts a Dreadlord is dumb”, is false unless you imply the Army of the Light are dumb too.

That said, won’t elaborate further. Everything has been said.

(Araphant) #53

I can’t, I am dying, my sides are bursting.


The entire race is built on manipulation. Wowpedia states this :

“In the nathrezim’s eyes, malice is the ultimate gift. To torment another creature with physical and moral agony offers something superior to happiness or contentment. Dreadlords prefer to turn their talents to psychic assault and manipulation, seeking to dissolve the bonds that unify individuals, groups, and nations and leave their mortal victims floundering amidst chaos and decay.”

What more do you need?

Stop giving the writer card to argue with. That can be said about everything thus there is no point to any discussion at all.

Trusts him after 1000’s of years, compared to 6. He is infused with the Light. Who would’ve known that people who are forged in the Light have more trust to other people who have been forged in the Light,

It is obvious that Lothraxion is a unique case. Locus Walker confirms as much,

In most cases yes, but not all. I have already said why.

Oh what a shame. I was enjoying your argument fallacies, headcanon and whatifs.

(Zarao) #55

Good. Then why continue arguing?
Point made, is that dealing in absolutes with said statement is factually incorrect given Lothraxions example. Simple as.

The majority are untrustworthy? Probably.

Are there certain cases or scenarios where a trust level could actually be reached? Definetly, given Lothraxions case.

How does the statement about everyone that trusts a Dreadlord is dumb, work knowing the above? Well, answer is that it’s wrong.

A generalisation that could be applied with many cases, but not enough to deal in absolutes.

There are certain cases where you could work to the point where you “trust” a Dreadlord. And not be “dumb” for it.
Was Sylvanas “dumb” for believing she could “trust” Varimathras? Probably, but that’s beyond the point at hand. She isn’t everyone.

Point being that the generalisation about everyone that trusts a Dreadlord (Nathrezim) is dumb, isn’t true given Lothraxions case.

Ps: Good to know you enjoy, felt kinda baited to reply.

(Anouk) #56

I just hope it explains this idiotic faction war…

God I really hope she has a solid 4-D chess plan which isn’t just for the lulz.

I highly doubt it tho…
At this rate, we will get a very wacky “Sylvanas just started this war so that she can free and slay N’zoth to save Azeroth”

(Zarao) #57

More like, explaining her idiotic moves to randomly make herself such an obvious target, while turning both the Horde and the Alliance against her.

At this point, kind of fine with the faction war and the sh!tstorm it created…but would rather want to know why did they make her character throw spades of manure to the wind in order to create it.

Edit: And the “Illidan Way” with N’Zoth, has a frighteningly high likehood.

(Anouk) #58

Calling it now! That would be so Blizzard.

(Zarao) #59

Scary as ef.


“Thrust lord Illidan, he knows the way ?”

That reminds me of another character who used to say:
“Thrust me, I know what I 'm doing.”
Look at the final episode: