The 4. Hunter spec idea [Stalker]

[Bowlow-bloodhoof]

Outdorsmanship was changed at release to Survival if my memory serves me correct.
The old talent tree can be found at:
classicwowtalents.appspot.[com]/index.html?talent=1124125_3

[Briz-zenedar]

Yeah. I meant the talents the spec had prior to that.

The tree that included Lacerate. Like you said further up.

[Bowlow-bloodhoof]

In my link classicwowtalents.appspot.[com]/index.html?talent=1124125_3 left side corner under patches, you will find a link to the patch 1.1.2
They are exactly what you posted

I’m not saying old surv was a good spec, but you could dish out some fancy numbers with the right gear.
Here is a link from a hunter playing as the Surv/BM
I have yet to find footage of the old Surv spec
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tE2dbmyYjs]

[Bowlow-bloodhoof]

The deadzone only applied to ranged, and thats where Old survival stepped in, I have linked a gamplay, but I’m happy to do it again.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tE2dbmyYjs]

[Briz-zenedar]

@Bowlow-bloodhoof

They are exactly what you posted

Ok, good!

@Bowlow-bloodhoof

I’m not saying old surv was a good spec, but you could dish out some fancy numbers with the right gear.

Might very well have been the case.

@Bowlow-bloodhoof

Here is a link from a Surv hunter playing as the old “Outdorsmanship” spec:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tE2dbmyYjs]

IMO, this might as well be a private server as well.
Or I should say, nothing that was unique to the old Outdoorsman is used at least. He does not appear to be using Lacerate either.

What is evident though is that Survival back then was not designed to make you a pure melee hunter.
Despite having all those talents that were beneficial to your melee capabilities.

You were as much of a hybrid back then as you are now with MSV. The main difference being that MSV now is made up from abilities(some at least) and effects taken from other specs combined with some niche stuff.

Does this mean that the current MSV is objectively bad? No.
Subjectively? Depends on who you ask ofc. We like things different.

---

Note:
Man you edited that post quite fast, not an easy task to answer some stuff

[Bowlow-bloodhoof]

@Briz-zenedar

IMO, this might as well be a private server as well.
Or I should say, nothing that was unique to the old Outdoorsman is used at least. He does not appear to be using Lacerate either

If you read the description in the video he states that this was taken during the last patch before BC.
I only mention Lacerate to prove a point that there was a time before Wyvern Sting.

@Briz-zenedar

Note:
Man you edited that post quite fast, not an easy task to answer some stuff

Yes, I did. I was puting kids to bed and writing on my mobile at the same time and only saw my mistakes in my own post when I sat down on my computer

@Briz-zenedar

What is evident though is that Survival back then was not designed to make you a pure melee hunter.

This is true, and Lacerate was such a bad talent as it didnt scale at all so those who played Surv added in points from BM as it would benefit more with current playstyle than MM. So that would leave you with something like 16/0/35 ( prior to 1.7 )
Due to deadzone ranged was f.cked in that sense as well. Arcane shot was expensive and didnt do that much dmg, Serpent Sting was not all that either, but gave you a dot at least ( preventing rogues to go stealth )
So yeah, I agree Surv was a hybrid as with many Specs back then, but do to your melee oriented playstyle acompanied with points in BM I would still look at it as a melee spec.

As of 1.7, it was more common to go 0/20/31 ( for PvP/duel purposes )
That being said, it was not until late AQ40/Naxx that Surv became a viable spec as they needed to hit the magical 450 Agi mark so they could take full advantage of Lightning reflexes. ( PvE )

My memory is a bit groggy, but I remember we had a Surv hunter on our server who dueled anything and was a pure pain to kill, if you even caught up to him as melee.

I will share a link where this topic is discussed in full on US forum:
[us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20760827654]

[Briz-zenedar]

If you read the description in the video he states that this was taken during the last patch before BC.
I only mention Lacerate to prove a point that there was a time before Wyvern Sting.

Ah, missed that part.

Yes, I did. I was puting kids to bed and writing on my mobile at the same time and only saw my mistakes in my own post when I sat down on my computer

No…stress…!

So yeah, I agree Surv was a hybrid as with many Specs back then, but do to your melee oriented playstyle acompanied with points in BM I would still look at it as a melee spec.

Well, in one way, people aren’t wrong on that. As the actual talents in the spec(prior to the changes), did mostly involve melee stuff. So yeah, looking only at the sv talents at the time, it was a melee spec.
Though as specs did not do as much to change your class’ playstyle back then compared to what they do now…
Like you said, it was a hybrid.

[Bowlow-bloodhoof]

Well, in one way, people aren’t wrong on that. As the actual talents in the spec(prior to the changes), did mostly involve melee stuff. So yeah, looking only at the sv talents at the time, it was a melee spec.
Though as specs did not do as much to change your class’ playstyle back then compared to what they do now…
Like you said, it was a hybrid.

I’m with you on that, all I’m advocating for is that Survival tree was melee oriented at one point. It wasnt a good tree, but I found it fun. The whole debate about hunters should be ranged only has existed for 14 years