I mean… Beshird did get it right. It could just be personal reasons.
Patriotic one might be, but imagine if you had to ask the Warchief for a resolution to an internal matter every time?
“Warchief! I am going to eat bread tonight. Are you okay with that?”
It was an assassination. As simple as that.
The Alliance destroyed Zandalari fleet. Alliance’s feint in Nazmir was a success. The Zandalari fleet has been destroyed. Then a kill-team of 20 (or however big the raid is) went deep into Dazar’Alor, straight for the king.
Calling it just or unjust… it doesn’t matter. In the end it was an assassination.
It wasn’t assassination, it was meant to be a force surrender.
Yeah, they really didn’t account for the stubborn arrogance of a nearly mythological god-king of the planet’s oldest empire.
Expecting a race as martial as the trolls to surrender without putting up a fight is a bit dense. They should have gone in with the expectation that he would fight back and if he would fight back, they should have been prepared for the possibility of his death.
Instead, it comes across as a bit absurd that the Alliance is crestfallen at having to fight and kill Rastakhan.
To be honest expecting anything in conflict to go 100% to plan is dumb.
What they said. Also it doesn’t matter what was it meant to be. Alliance player characters went in and killed the king. “I didn’t mean to” is a child’s excuse. The result matters. Every Zandalari and Horde member saw it like that. They feel justified to retaliate.
“No plan survives contact with the enemy” Moltke the Elder
It is more incompetence of the Alliance to think that they would surrender than anything else. Doesn’t take away from the fact that they tried to do so.
Well, no. They were sent in to weaken the Zandalari defenses and capture the king. They only killed him because he refused to surrender, giving them no other choice.
Ah…It was Friday. That all makes sense. That’s weekly “The Horde are bad and you should feel bad for playing them” day.
Also, there is no Hypocrisy at play there, that is not what Hypocrisy means. The Horde is angry at an attack, whether justified or not, The Zandalari are raging at an attack that, in fairness, is not justified. Neither is an example of hypocrisy.
So you’re either looking at “Anger at a legitimate counterattack” or “Anger at an unprovoked attack”
Neither of which is Hypocrisy. Now if the Horde were appealing to some third party and saying how unfair it was the Alliance had attacked them, after having attacked the Alliance, then that -would- be Hypocrisy, however that is not what is happening.
Along with Genocide, Hypocrisy is a word being thrown around so often that it is losing its meaning, and almost always being used in error.
That’s what I’m telling you when you play on Horde side, you don’t see a single Zandalari NPC Nor you get any info about their involvement.
That’s impossible because Zandalari even after initial questing didn’t pledge any loyalty or agreement with Horde, that’s what Kul’Tirans did it was them that renewed their Alliance membership, but Zandalari remained to be independant Rastakhan and even Talanji are still there to nurture their own separatism and independance. even after the raid they’re not gonna be Sylvanas’ subjects.
Y’know this is were the actual problem lies and it’s quite frustrating. It appears that not even once Alliance is allowed to do something wrong, either it is because of developers being stubborn or because of playerbase that is incapable of coping with wrong-doing. Whether it’s assault on Vulpera or Kingslaying there is always narration that shown that “oh, no… Alliance didn’t actually did de bad ting, it was just unfortunate/ in their version they tried something else/ they didn’t actually kill anyone it was an accident”,
But when it comes to Horde not even once there is some “toning down” on things, some correction to show the reason why something like that happens, maybe in their version they were doing something less extreme. Nah, not even once.
When Alliance is concerned the writing is adjusted to put them in better light - and that was at least a thing since 5.3. where after a big outcry on Vol’Jin daring to be mean to Alliance received rebuttal to make Alliance playbease look better but in the end both sides looked stupid.
When Horde is concerned then it appears that devs are thinking of a way to paint them even more black at every turn, and they only learn that they do evil stuff if they do Alliance version.
Heck even Kul’Tiran slavery is brushed off as “oh it was just Ashvane- what you’re talking about that they have a history about it and even other nations are calling them slavers?” , or actual genocide handwaved “Oh but Drust were attacking them and were mean, didn’t want to share their land and stuff, totally deserved!”.
This is how ridiculous writing has become. So again, sorry that I’m not joining bandwagon to be constantly blamed for stuff, especially where there is logical chance that this time around stuff can be reversed - as Alliance already set stuff in motion before invasions, and that they actually had time and means to launch invasions first.
But as I said I hold it against writers, althought players aren’t really making it easier when there are some that like to shove right to your face at every turn how awful you should feel for playing said faction, and how come everything bad that is happening to you is well deserved.
I said nothing of the sort. You are making things up. What is this persecution complex so many Blood Elf avatars have? I can separate the people playing the game from the faction they are playing, and I am not demanding they feel any particular way about anything. Anyone who think otherwise should learn to separate the game from reality as well.
Criticising someone for something you yourself are guilty of is the literal definition of hypocricy, which is what the Horde leaders are doing here. Do not dare claim there is no hypocricy going and and then neglect to actually prove my assertions wrong.
How was it not justified? The Zandalari and Alliance were enemies. They were planning on deploying their fleet against them. Why is the Alliance not justified in preventing that from happening, to prevent even more of their civilian population from dying? If the Zandalari saw themselves justified in attacking Kul Tiras, why are the Alliance not justified in attacking them? This is the exact hypocricy I am talking about.
Talanji calls the Alliance murderers for killing her father, when what the Alliance did was categorically not murder, after her own people murdered innocent civilians in Anglepoint, which she did nothing about. Yet suddenly, when someone close to her is “murdered”, the enemy has suddenly gone too war. Sylvanas treats it as some unprecedented war crime that is so horrible the Horde must continute the war, when she herself did much worse towards Malfurion, while wishing the Zandalari become motivated to fight more, the opposite of what she proclaimed would happen to the Night Elves if their leader died.
Again, if you are going to claim this is not hypocricy, explain how, else you are just being disingenious.
The claim “You are wrong” is also being thrown around a lot without anything to back it up, so it is quickly losing its meaning as well.
True, but it still happens, and in coordination and together with the Horde.
Still, even before the battle, Sylvanas considers the use of their fleet against the Alliance a given. And off-topic, but considering that her reaction to Talanji’s demand of equality is basically “uh-huh,sure,whatever” I think Talanji will be in for a rude awakening
I’d have 0 problem with Alliance invasions happening first. I just don’t want it to be treated as canon when it is not.
I get where you’re coming from, but I personally don’t think that any toning down matters post-Teldrassil. Every Horde member that kept following Sylvanas is okay enough with one of the most morally reprehensible things in WOW history. After that, why would any softening matter, when the Horde is shown to not care (enough to do anything)? And would toning down even make sense anymore in terms of the story, when Teldrassil was met with resistance from exactly 1 character?
I’m not even gonna read the rest; this comment is the most dumb, and ineduquated one around. Yes Zandalari didn’t participate in the War of Thorns; instead they joined forces with the Mogu in Pandaria; helped raise the Thunder-King from his grave, and waged war against The Horde, Grand Alliance AND Pandaren… But somehow the Alliance was unjustified and wrong for taking their Princess AND Prophet hostage?
Get out, right about freaking now. If anything the battle for Dazar’Alor could be considered a response to the Island of Thunders.
I don’t care about anything discussed up until now; The Alliance was justified to capture the Princess and Prophet brcause of what they did to the Alliance(and Horde and Pandaren).
But once again, stuff is convientetly forgotten to have a race join the Horde because otherwise they would ben utterly oblebirated by the sole Superpower on Azeroth.
How is it dumb and inadequate? uneducated? thing around exactly?
The split here is that Zul played his role which incidentally pulled his entire race into question. And in the end, even his own race hated him for doing it. I mean, have you looked at the division of opinion concerning him?
At all?
Have you conveniently forgotten the part where, if we’re battling with quotes here, in that civilians like the one at the port disapproved of Zul causing random wars in the world whilst his people rebuilt after the Cataclysm?
You’re basically doing what you just wrote:
Don’t point fingers at others when you yourself are doing the same.
Yes and his race just proved what Zul proved before. They aren’t trustworthy and they rather join a known genocidal maniac on her world-conquering high then stay neutral or open negatiations with the Alliance to free their Princess and their “unwanted” prophet.
They might disagree with it, hell, his entire race might have disagreed with it; nonetheless he had an Army that kept following him on his adventures to ressurect the Thunder-King and help the Mogu enslave the Pandaren. And not once did the Zandalari question themselves about it. Ha dhe succeded they would’ve hailed him a hero.
Also that army wouldn’t have followed him if Rastakhan(and his people) didn’t allow it.
So no; its not solely Zul who is responsible for what happened on the Isle of Thunder, just like its not solely Garithos, Sylvanas or Anduin whom are responsible for what the New Alliance, Horde or Grand Alliance do or did.
Also heey Orgrim! Its a while ago since we discussed something! 
Just because they don’t submit to what the alliance want, doesn’t mean they are bad people. I call bias on this sentence.
It sucks that they made Zul an Old God cultist just to be able to pin all the blame on him on all the Zandalari ventures during Cata and MoP. It was interesting IMO when Zul was an independent 3rd power. It would’ve been more interesting if the Horde had to ally with a former enemy, ad allow some interesting story developments for the Horde.
Hi again. Also it’s Orig, but I am happy you would compare me to the glory that is OG Chief Chrome Dome.
But to continue…
Yes, I do think the Zandalari could have done this part better. But I mean, there is only so many times I could say the writing team would have done anything they did in this story far better, but I feel it’s shouting into a wind-tunnel at that point.
One interesting issue to counter this however is that there is a reason why the kingdom wouldn’t have known, and it is because Talanji used the ‘priveleged princess’ strategy. We discover this from Jak’razet’s surprise when we first enter Dazar’alor, claiming that Talanji did not leave to find the Horde’s aid to help her father’s empire deal with the Blood Trolls, but rather to ‘go exploring’.
So for all Rastakhan and his advisors knew, Talanji would’ve easily died in an Alliance jail because there was no pretense to her saying anything truthful and that apparently, Zandalar was a difficult place to get to. Or so I assume from the cinematic that even Rokhan and Chuck Nathanos did not figure.
I have difficulty believing this. Mostly because there was nothing on that front that could guess such. Only that we saw Rastakhan was quite clearly indifferent about it going from the interring of Vol’jin to Mount Mugambala and the King’s Rest.
Whilst I agree with you in that it is not solely Zul in this case, but the same logic could be applied to other threats that were as tangible. For example, the same threat of the Sha’s influence in Pandaria growing out of whack is blamed on both the Horde and Alliance because they brought ‘their war’ to its shores.