The Pandaria Effect 🎍

[Krasarang-argent-dawn (Krasarang)]

Whilst it has been a thing for so many years, I’ve recently noticed an uptick in large-scale events being hosted in settings that seemingly don’t suit the theme of the event. And while this is generally not a huge issue when spread evenly, it has instead come to dominate a select handful of places e.g. Tian Monastery (which has notably been used as a hub for non-Pandaria guilds since BfA).
Places canonically important to Pandaren, culturally, spiritually, educationally, are reduced to stages and fun fairs on the regular. Surely no authority of such institutions would realistically condone such a misappropriation of their venues in good conscience?

By being constantly concentrated in one place, I personally feel it tends to warp perceptions of an area e.g. Pandaria has a rich an vibrant culture itself but tends to get reduced to being a party backdrop that has no relevance to the event at hand e.g. a charity fashion show unrelated to Pandaria being held in a place that was recently sacked by Mogu, Mantid and Old God forces.
This, treatment of Pandaria as an exotic playground, coupled with the seeming lack of incorporation of Pandarian culture or even actual characters has led to Pandaren rpers being completely drowned out, something that has only been amplified by the Pandaren community itself already being small.

I just want to add, I’m not against events being held in places (nobody in their right mind would be), but if there is no effort to make changes to suit the setting you’re hosting in then what’s being provided if the calories are empty?

What are your thoughts? What places would you like to see used more for the larger events?

[Rotwild-argent-dawn]

I get what you are saying about Pandaria locations just being an exotic party backdrop for whatever. On one side I do get it: The Pandaria zones are just absolutely, ridiculously stunning and still some of Blizzard’s best work. On the other hand, it does make these events seem oddly disconnected from the rest of the setting. Like, why exactly is everyone going to Pandaria to celebrate a holiday that has no seeming connection to Pandaria?

Though I will add that I don’t buy into the notion that anyone is being drowned out. Pandaria is a big place and these big events aren’t that frequent and usually limited to one location. There’s plenty of room for everyone.

[Krasarang-argent-dawn (Krasarang)]

@Rotwild-argent-dawn

Though I will add that I don’t buy into the notion that anyone is being drowned out.

I think it’s a matter of being twice-damned. As an RP community, Pandaren are a fraction of the server and coupled with the sheer size of Pandaria itself, it merely compounds the matter.

Perhaps the beauty of Pandaria is the victim of it’s own success? I will add again that I don’t hate the idea of people using Pandaria for events, it’s certainly is big enough. But it’s turning into a constant venue and that serves to have a negative impact on the wider world. You’ve so many areas across Azeroth that need more love e.g. the Norwington Estate etc. that tend to get sidelined because of prettier alternatives. Yet, Tiragarde Sound is breathtaking and would suit an Alliance-side ball.

[Kodoheart-argent-dawn]

I agree in that I feel the usage of Tian Monastery is just now the norm for any larger social events and just because “that’s where everyone hosts their social events”.

Not only is it strange from a lore perspective, but perhaps even unoriginal and repetitive to always host something at Tian, let alone Pandaria. If it’s not a Pandaren event.

[Fentonius-argent-dawn (Fentonius)]

I don’t think appropriation of fictitious cultures in a video game should be that high up on our list of concerns, even when we are playing said video game.

[Coldsháde-argent-dawn (Coldsháde)]

@Krasarang-argent-dawn

Yet, Tiragarde Sound is breathtaking and would suit an Alliance-side ball.

Thing is, those events taking place in Pandaria are most often neutral. You don’t have that many alternative locations for those… although I personally think Shattrath could surely use some more attention.

[Asmeday-argent-dawn]

Honestly I think that, while I see your concerns, it’s really difficult to justify this viewpoint while simultaneously being of the opinion that big events are great and you’d love to see more of them. Big events are amazing! They bring the server to life in ways you don’t see anywhere else, but, the problem lies in the fact that there’s almost nowhere appropriate to host them -neutrally- outside of the two very commonly used venues of the Argent Tournament Grounds, and the Tian Monastery. Logistically for organisers, these places aren’t disrupting huge rp hubs (unless there’s a massive rp hub in either i’m unaware of), they can justify a neutral and ‘no fighting’ stance by the presence of an npc organisation so that ooc they don’t have to deal with added headache of mediating faction conflict during the undertaking, and, they aren’t awash with hostile npcs that make it impossible or difficult to have low level characters there.

I don’t think its a case of people disregarding the culture of the area, i think simply put that it’s logistical. I’d love it if there were more areas capable of hosting big server wide neutral events! But unfortunately there really aren’t, and for people who put as much effort as they do into these kind of things, we have what we have in game and thats it. Pandaria is gorgeous and I can’t blame anyone for using it for large scale events of any kind when the alternatives as far as I know are places that aren’t fit for purpose for any number of reasons, or the argent tournament which is, aesthetically lacking.

[Asmeday-argent-dawn]

@Coldsháde-argent-dawn

I personally think Shattrath could surely use some more attention.

you’re right here but it’s still one of only like, a tiny handful of venues that can hold big neutral server events! idk i think the blame here lies or rather should lie with blizzard for not providing good rp areas rather than rpers and organisers (who do wonderful amazing work) for making use of what they have

[Krasarang-argent-dawn (Krasarang)]

@Asmeday-argent-dawn

Honestly I think that, while I see your concerns, it’s really difficult to justify this viewpoint while simultaneously being of the opinion that big events are great and you’d love to see more of them.

I disagree with this. I’ve discussed this with other Pandaren RPers to sound out what they feel about this matter. The general consensus is that it’s nice to see Pandaria being used, but the events tend to hold little reference to the area they’re hosted in and are seemingly just being held constantly in one spot because it is indeed a matter of logistics and convenience.

Perhaps there’s a give an take in this matter, and this doesn’t just apply to Pandaria (it’s just that Pandaria tends to be the constant example and this is from first-hand experience). But if your event shows little or no reference to your setting then it’s effectively just a copy and paste.

[Beruna-argent-dawn]

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Neutral_settlements

[Asmeday-argent-dawn]

@Krasarang-argent-dawn

just being held constantly in one spot because it is indeed a matter of logistics and convenience.

that’s exactly why it’s being used! thats what I said!
People organising big neutral rp events don’t have the luxury of many locations, sadly, and it’s not their fault for defaulting to the one and only one place that logistically can facilitate their event. If it’s a faction locked event there’s places that make more sense but for big neutral events? Sadly you, me and the rest of the community are going to be stuck with this until blizzard begins creating rp friendly open world spaces, ever.
I might be coming across callous here but it just seems to me that its a lot easier to be a critic than a creator and, that your issue is more personally about events you’ve disliked being held there for one reason or another. Maybe i’m wrong, but, I have nothing but respect for people who create big events like the World’s Faire carnival and the like for everyone, and I can’t really see any reason to pick it apart because they make use of the only logistically sound place for hosting events. Honestly this seems more of an issue of the world being rp unfriendly than of any group of rpers or anyone on argent dawn, so it seems a non-issue in my opinion. I’m sure you’ll disagree but I like it when theres rp, and restricting events to only ever take place in pandaria when they’ve got official paperwork and portal licenses and warlock registration to do so just, seems like making it so theres less rp.

[Ranor-argent-dawn]

Preface: I’m a creator as well, so to speak. I have made events like this before, so I know the effort that goes into these sort of things.

imo there’s more than enough potential spots to host such events. The issue is it feels like nobody bothers to look. I apologise for being blunt here: But you’re telling me that out of an entire world that is, most likely, the BIGGEST digital playground in the MMO genre that there’s nowhere else to host large events besides:

Tian Monastery
Tian Monastery
Tian Monastery
Tian Monastery
That one town in Uldum
Tian Monastery
Tian Monastery
Sometimes that other pandaren village also in Jade Forest

I find that hard to believe. I’m more of the thought that most people just do their stuff in Pandaria because it’s where everyone else does it. And as the OP suggested I feel it massively waters down the world and backdrop if you use an extremely distinct, exotic location (Nevermind that it’s often sacred ground which I would find problematic on certain characters of my own) for something that has no relation to the backdrop at all.

Hosting stuff in Tian Monastery constantly is the equivalent of holding similar events in Stormwind Cathedral, or (As a more blunt example) Uther’s Tomb, to put it into perspective. I am positive if people dug around you could find plenty of potential venues that are open to both sides and aren’t a wee bit concerning for the locals.

Off the top of my head some ideas come to mind:

That scarlet cathedral in Plaguelands (Requires one questline to unphase and remove hostile NPCs, occasionally used for paladin meetings but so long as dates don’t cross over I doubt anyone would mind). Just say it’s somewhere else IC. Make it apparent it’s not a cathedral even if you’re just using the interior.

Dalaran. Both old and new have some large spaces you could use. New tends to be used as an RP hub on tuesdays and thursdays. Portrait room or purple parlour are large enough and then you got the streets outside.

The multitude of ships dotted around the world. Boat party anyone? Some places have massive ships side by side. I’ve used one for a wedding before. If it gets cramped just set up teleportation circles between the ships so people can spread out. No NPCs on most of these. Blasted Lands Post-WoD is ideal for this.

Vashj’ir. Speaking of boats, underwater ball in a ‘reclaimed’ palace at the bottom of the sea sounds dope. Naga NPCs are very spread out and can be killed immediately. I’m positive there’s at least a few large areas devoid of NPCs altogether. Phasing may be an issue but completing a Cata zone’s main quest lines doesn’t take long at all these days.

Tol Barad I think has a fort somewhere? Not been there in ages but could be worth a gander.

Greymane Manor. Again, say it’s somewhere else IC. It’s not even phased afaik like the Cathedral in Gilneas is. Posh noble with no interest in the faction war wants a party, boom. Done.

Draenor has a number of cool spots. Just say it’s Outland or some other place IC. The massive draenei hub comes to mind. Though it’s likely Alliance only. But frankly most of the neutral events are 90% Alliance anyway. I’d have to revisit to name any specifically as names escape me.

I can probably find more if I spent time looking in-game. Point being these other spots do exist, and while I understand a lot of work goes into hosting large scale events already (Been there, done that) I don’t feel it excuses recycling the same spot over and over. Especially one that comes at the cost of watering down the importance of in-lore locations. Neutral or not, just go out and look and I’m sure you could find somewhere else.

[Krasarang-argent-dawn (Krasarang)]

I recently attended an event that was held in that Tortollan tavern at the bottom of Tiragarde Sound, it was honestly so revolutionary to hold it there (you kinda forget those places exist) and it seriously made a big change from the usual.

Even places like Winterspring do see use (there was an event there the other night actually) but for the most part, a lot of these different venues see use perhaps once or twice a year vs one place being used effectively as a base constant. Even within Pandaria as a venue, it sees the most use.

[Ranor-argent-dawn]

The fact that Tian Monastery has become a meme in a few circles I’m in kinda speaks for itself. It’s used at least twice a month I swear. All the pandaria events kinda blur together for me. I blink and we’ve had one with two more lined up on the Argent Archives calendar.

[Telaryn-argent-dawn (Telaryn)]

@Ranor-argent-dawn

The fact that Tian Monastery has become a meme in a few circles I’m in kinda speaks for itself.

I miss actively RPing a Pandaren character in the grounds of Tian and developing their martial skill daily with actual sparring sessions in the days of yore

[Sathrynn-argent-dawn]

@Krasarang-argent-dawn

What places would you like to see used more for the larger events?

Dalaran, Light’s Hope, the Argent Tournament - plenty of faction-neutral places with lots of space for folks if they want to do their own thing, and there are countless ruins and fortresses out there in Azeroth that could easily be put to use as well.

Also, I’m not a fan of visiting places that my characters would have zero motivation to do so - Sathrynn doesn’t care about Pandaria unless it’s part of a mission or she’s seeking a new source of unstable power, she’s not going to some tournament or cultural festival as she’s a stinky elf with bad manners. Likewise my Forsaken isn’t going to leave Lordaeron unless it’s really, really important, like fighting the undead in Northrend or getting supplies from Orgrimmar. It just comes across as a little odd to me, and the barrier between IC and OOC seems blurred.

[Krasarang-argent-dawn (Krasarang)]

I’ve noticed Dalaran has actually come into it’s own in the past year. It’s perhaps more active than I’ve ever known and that is reflected in the sheer amount of events that are held there and that owes a lot to it being developed and invested in as a city RP hub.

[Velravyn-argent-dawn]

@Krasarang-argent-dawn

Perhaps there’s a give an take in this matter, and this doesn’t just apply to Pandaria (it’s just that Pandaria tends to be the constant example and this is from first-hand experience). But if your event shows little or no reference to your setting then it’s effectively just a copy and paste.

I can agree with this. IMO, events like ‘The Grand World Tournament’ could be hosted anywhere, but they have interwoven in and paid homage to their setting. The use of the Argent Tourney Grounds and Tian Monastery was put on quite well, and very respectfully wove in both reverence and local tradition.

But then there are the ‘festivals’… Which do not. They rather ‘overwrite’ those areas quite viciously, and essentially ignore their locations for the pretense of “This is a nice Neutral Party! WHEEEE!” It’s frustrating to see. It would be better to return them to ‘neutral ports’ like Uldum.

[Krasarang-argent-dawn (Krasarang)]

Nail on the head. In some sense, if the majority of events made an effort to incorporate their surrounding culture then they do better to not look so out of place - I didn’t attend the entirety of the Grand World Tournament but I appreciated their effort of making use of the Sky Race and even adding inspiration to their medals (like the first place medal being jade).

In hindsight, I feel my O/P highlights two problems that perhaps might’ve been best discussed separately but on the other hand, they both feed into each other.

[Meiwan-argent-dawn]

I feel myself agreeing with you, as I play a character who studied in Tian Monastery and it’s honestly boggling in-character to see a monastery being used as a base of operations for corporations, brawling tournaments (often devoid of pandaren participants or guests - indicative of something, perhaps) or generally “because it looks cool”. It gets to a stage where playing a pandaren character on Pandaria can be a draining experience.

I mean, it’s a monastery, for the Celestials’ sake. It’s further frustrating that when your character points out how utterly jarring everything is, you’re told to speak to NPC Grand Masters that run the monastery who have apparently given full consent for their ancient teaching grounds to serve as a fashion show or a luxurious goods market.