The problem with the Alliance


(Leíá) #41

Inconsistent character = bad character. She needs to be sidelined, just like how she was in Legion, where the story was slightly better.

I agree with this. Come the end of BfA, he should step down as the primary Alliance leader. He’s crap and the whole “toxic masculinity” boll*cks, is truly bringing the Alliance writing to a whole new level of crap.

Again though, this is primarily a Wrynn/Proudmoore problem that is choking not just the other races of the Alliance, but also other Human characters out of existence.
The Greymane ladies are ignored. Lorna Crowley is ignored. Gryan is ignored. Leryessa is ignored (Thassarian’s sister.) So many good characters who are all in our memory are just sidelined for Anduin, Jaina, but also Mathias and Genn.

This is the truest problem, because these characters that are ignored don’t bring the “Human potential” crap with them. Queen Mia is very much focused on aiding the Kaldorei, along with Lorna, Tess and Lorna’s Dad.
Gryan Stoutmantle is just a well rounded character who has flaws, but also some good vibes. If you ask me, he should have played more of a role in this expansion.

Leryessa has been all, but forgotten, even though I believe she would make a fantastic character for the darker side to Human lore - perhaps a positive Human Warlock in lore. It would be good for these siblings to have the “darker” aspects to the Human lore.


#42

It’s humans getting spotlight on the expense of everyone else. Shifting it to zandalari trolls for the red team instead of Jaina and Anduin sticking their noses in a story they don’t belong in.
It’s clear Zug zugs and Humans with fur can’t manage themselves.


#43

They don’t belong in that story because you said it, ok.

So in your imaginary world the Alliance and Horde never interact with each other then, because even the simple act of interaction would be not minding your own business.


(Aeula) #44

I think I just threw up in my mouth. Those clowns can barely control a third of their own island. Let alone the entirety of the Horde.


#45

A third? You’re being too generous. They got cultists literally underneath the port and in the second most important district of the city. It’s more like 0.25/3.


#46

If the horde would actually start acting like an reliable ally instead of thanks to Baine leaving us on the mercy of the alliance all the time, we could work it out. But you guys are too busy with rebellion and self cannibalizing instead.


#47

I mean, it’s you who got played by Jaina and Shaw and sent your army to Nazmir.


(Aeula) #48

Without the Horde the Zandalari ‘Empire’ would be G’huun’s new playground. Imagine almost losing to a FAKE Old God.

The Horde is a mess with it’s own problems but you can’t say they didn’t go out of their way to help the Zandalari.


(Leíá) #49

The Horde does act for it’s allies. The only time when it was split between the faction, was in Highmountain with the HM Tauren.

I mean, truthfully, I don’t think any race on either side is good enough to lead their respective factions.


#50

Have the horde kicked out alliance from vol’dun yet? Ghostlands? Killing Jaina when she tried to escape? No they failed each time. So much for being allies.


#51

The Horde never even had Vol’dun in the first place, which goes back to the point that the Zandalari failed to assert dominance in one of the three regions in Zandalar.

I’m no Horde apologist, but pretending that they are the guilty party here and not the Zandalari’s incompetence makes me wonder if you’ve even played the Zandalari questing experience. You literally fixed every problem they had because they were too weak to resolve it by themselves.


(Leíá) #52

Well that’s just a ring-around event and it doesn’t amount to anything, period.

The only other Humans in Vol’dun are those of Ashvane, who are stupid idiots who we all know, had chosen to side with Azshara and the Naga.

The Kaldorei were not the primary threat at that time. It was Drathir and the Scourge and they were dealt with. We know this because if he wasn’t dealt with, the Blood Elves wouldn’t have been able to join the Horde.
I also believe the Kaldorei were dealt with as mentioned by Thrall in his quest-text dialogue to the blood elf player.
I can’t remember the wording but something along the lines of “driving alliance soldiers out of your land.” Again, not the wording, but something to that affect.

They weakened her and Gelbin, but these heroes are legendary and they wouldn’t go down easily.


(Aeula) #53

Ongoing war. Do you think the Zandalari could do it alone?

Done.

Her plot armor is too thick and the Zandalari couldn’t pierce it either.


#54

So they ain’t really worth anything as allies after all. Talanji as new troll empress needs to start showing alliance dogs a good kicking in the guts. Because their races have done worse to trolls over the centuries than anything the horde pulled off. So far.

And some cents. According to that Windrunner comic the ghostlands are still full of undead everywhere. So much for that.


(Leíá) #55

They did what they could. The Horde is not this all-seeing, all-knowing faction and you’ve got to remember something.

The lore characters can only go off the information they know at that time. They are not you, they are not me, who has the whole story in our laps. Nathanos and Sylvanas had no idea what Jaina and Shaw were attempting to pull, just like Malfurion and Delaryn had no idea what Saurfang and Varok were up to, during the War of Thorns.

I’d say that the entire Elven race and the Highborne bloodline has done far worse for Trolls.
It was the Highborne and their Queen who ordered the Trolls to remain in their lands.
It was the Highborne, later High Elves, who invaded their lands.

Doesn’t matter. They are scattered ghouls and cultists. Drathir was the target and Drathir and the Night Elves were dealt with. Forsaken and Blood Elves dealt with this, without the Kalimdor Horde.


#56

Humans with Amani and gurubashi. Dwarfs against native frostmanes in dun morogh. The entire modern alliance is full of build on troll corpses.

Source?


(Leíá) #57

If Drathir is gone, you do the math on what has truly become of these pockets of Scourge forces. Everything was “Drathir is our goal” and Drathir was dealt with.
You don’t want to accept that because “I be Zandalari and we deserve our own game” but tough sh!t.
Quel’Thalas is stuck in it’s TBC time period.

No, still Elves.


#58

No. All of them. You don’t steal someone’s land and pretend you did nothing wrong afterwards. It’s just the same as with the elves.

And because of that too, many night elves start questioning their alignment to the alliance for the same reason.


(Elyssarain) #59

Oh how many times I’d wished the night elves never joined the Alliance and remained the inscrutable neighbours you didn’t trespass on, for fear of being turned into pincushions.


(Leíá) #60

Oh here we go with the lark of “All land is troll land.”

Well, if we go down this route, all land is Black Empire land.

The Night Elven citizens needed a safe port and Stormwind provided that.
The Night Elves who remained in Darkshore questioned their allegiance because they were left alone to fight the main Horde races.

It was only after Anduin with his all talk, no action stance, did Tyrande grow impatient. Now, with the destruction of her city and her mood, the rebellion that Saurfang wants to build is going to be far more complex.