The PvP stat and why it's needed

Community General Discussion
1

In Shadowlands the almighty PvP vendor makes its return to the game, which will hopefully improve the catastrophy that was BFA PvP gearing.
But the problem is that without a PvP dedicated stat, we’re very likely going to see the exact same issues in SL that we did in BFA, even with a PvP vendor.

As soon as SL is out, it’ll be determined whichever PvE or PvP is the fastest way to gear, and one of them WILL become mandatory for the other.
If you’re unaware, in BFA a PvP player must use anywhere between 10-14 gear pieces from PvE content, which is terrible considering you’d likely prefer to gear up in your content of choice.

Before I dive into why a PvP stat is necessary, I’ll answer some common statements

Q: I don’t want a PvP stat because I don’t want to carry two gear sets on me
A: You have to carry around two gear sets right now. I’m even carrying three different gear sets; haste/crit for raids, haste/mastery for M+ and versa/haste for PvP, because those are BiS in each respective content.

Q: This isn’t an issue because you can get max ilvl through PvP as well
A: You cannot. A common misconception often made is that you can gear to max by being elite bracket and up, which is true, but the problem is that you won’t get to elite bracket ever without being max geared.
To get geared through PvP, you must gear yourself through PvE to reach the higher brackets and by then those PvP pieces aren’t an upgrade anymore (except badge trinket for fire mage/destro lock).

Q: Just stick to your own content then
A: It’s just not possible, because not only does gear matter, but the amount of time it takes you to acquire it matters just as much. Being behind on gear compared to others means a lot in PvP, the content doesn’t wait for you like in PvE.

Q: I don’t want a PvP stat because I like that I can gear in PvE and still be relevant in PvP
A: You aren’t just relevant, you’re the best in it, and it ruins the game for actual PvP focused players. Besides, unless your BiS PvE stat is versatility, you will likely be alive for a few seconds before being met with the white screen.

As mentioned earlier, depending on whichever content will deliver the most gear the fastest, will become the mandatory content to farm, regardless of what you like. If the PvP vendor introduces items with targeted stats, every PvE player WILL be forced to do PvP for them. If not, then every PvP player WILL be forced to do M+ for gear and raids for trinkets.
The only way to make it otherwise is for a PvP stat to be reintroduced. The PvP stat separates the contents, it doesn’t increase the amount of gear sets you require either.

Please let’s do something about this now while SL is still not released yet. I simply don’t believe that you can balance the PvP and PvE drops equally, and as it stands I can’t see any benefit of not having a PvP stat.

32 Likes
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PvP resilience and power wasn’t an issue when it was relevant. It wouldn’t be an issue in the future either, Blizzard is just out of touch.

13 Likes
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They are listening too much to those whiners:
" I don’t want to farm Im one complete set just for PvP"

“I want to roflstomp with my raiding / pve gear”

For real, PvP was never in such a bad place life in BFA.
Also the gear was so bad , in think I never used anything of it, except some trinket.

4 Likes
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The wardrobe option we have where we can have a set which we can easily transmog to, I can’t see why that can’t be tweaked a little so that we can also have ‘sets’ of gear we use. So basically a tab where instead of mogging to it, we equip the set of gear we wish to use.

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I thought this existed already? I don’t use it but I thought there was a gear-set wardrobe function.

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I believe there is a ‘sets’ option but I thought this was for transmog sets only, so a set from a raid for example. I wasn’t aware that they had added sets that you can actually equip, rather than ‘mog’ to.

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I’m not certain as I don’t use it - I just thought the option existed though.

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It’s not, because raid gives you 485.

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You need to carry the sets in your bag .

You are right .

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With how they have nerfed mythic+ loot hopefully you will not need to do much pve .

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As long as they do not introduce interesting effects on armor/weapon and trinket slots you’re absolutely right.
Karanze here didn’t mention this, but it’s absolutely belongs to this topic:
pvp vendor will be secondary as long as there are items like Geti’ikku, Drest trinket, Bicycle or the fist weapon from Underrot and pvp players do not want to ruin the fun for pve players.
Introducing a pvp stat would solve this problem easily :slight_smile:
edit: nevermind, he did, I just didn’t read it properly.

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PvP and PvE are so fundamentally different that you can’t, imo, balance them in a conjoined system.
You just can’t neatly integrate something like casual BGs into mirroring something in PvE because there’s such a huge variance in outcomes that doesn’t exist in PvE content.

2 Likes
13

I never hated resillience (although I hated PvP power), but I kinda wish no PvP stat would ever return. Resilience was needed as a bandaid for old design: where people could pretty much oneshot eachother, and everyone was critting a lot, not to mention the amount of mana burns in the game. I liked Cata’s resilience the most - it only reduced damage taken, but you also lost access to properly optimized 2ndary stats, giving you a good leeway between dropping resill for damage, and still being tanky.

PvP Power just made it mandatory for everyone to run around in the exact same PvP gear as everyone - it was no better than Legion’s templates.

At the moment, Blizzard can nail PvP balance with seperate PvP balancing. The more diverse the gearing options are, the better. Everyone should be able to make their very own setup. By that I mean that back during resillience, you’ve had a lot of room to mix in all of these different items from all facets of the game, allowing you to make your very own setup.

The only difference between a dedicated and a more casual player should be the pace they gear up at - so say that the dedicated guy walks away with 1 475 piece at the end of the week, the casual may need 2, maybe 3 if they were super lazy.

Also, they should stop giving out to 485 to mythic raiders. Either PvPers and M+ers should get those as well (and PvPers used to with Elite sets), or noone.

4 Likes
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I totally agree. They need to stop making PvE players stronger in PvP than people who just want to PvP, and they need to stop forcing PvP players to do PvE for BIS.
I fear for the legendaries and all the new PvE systems and their impact on PvP

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But do you realise the amount of “PVP focused players” is absolutely tiny? Most PVP players still PVE.
All this does is alienate the vast majority of players from wanting to do PVP because their gear sucks even though they’ve put a ton of time into getting it.

I love PVE and PVP, but I don’t want two separate progression paths. I want the effort i put in to either aspect to be beneficial and enjoyable to me in every other aspect of the game I choose to partake in.

The balance can just be done via tier set bonuses, like the good days. No need for silly stats and extra restrictions.

1 Like
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Idk about that one mate. The whole point of the thread is that PvP’ers are forced to PvE.

The good old days also had a PvP stat. But that would just separate the contents, unlike having to gear up a tier set :slight_smile:

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[quote=“Liljon-ragnaros, post:13, topic:165591, full:true”]
At the moment, Blizzard can nail PvP balance with seperate PvP balancing. [/quote]

They don’t do this though. They talk about having the ability to fine tune everything separately in PvP but they neglect it completely.

I don’t know how or why it has gotten to the state it is in right now. Who on earth at Blizzard thinks that this is ok? PvP is head and shoulders in the worst state we’ve ever seen it and it only seems to get worse patch after patch.

Something significant needs to change.

2 Likes
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Well, starting to care about PvP balancing a bit more is what I’d say, instead of adding resillience / PvP powre back.

Personally speaking, I’d say PvP at the moment is in quite a nice state (not assuming how you gear up and all that). People finally have damage now, now that everyone has all their azerite traits, essences, corruptions and whatnot. As long as PvP isn’t a snoozefest, we have a decent PvP patch. Of course there are a couple stuff that I’d change (such as Warlocks), but overall, it’s looking good. Blizz just gotta use the technology they have.

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What do you mean you don’t know about that?
You think it would be a shocking figure to discover that most people play WoW for PVE…?

And PVE gear was still useful / strong in BGs.

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Only PvP gear should be allowed in PvP!

I was hopeful when they announced vendors would be back and then the pvp power item… but no at the end it is all for internal testing the pvp power and the dont plan to bring it back…they lost their ways completely

SL is shaping to be even worst than BFA! :unamused: :sleepy: