The "real" Sylvanas Windrunner and "death"


#61

Was Sylvanas mind-controlled by an Old God during Classic as well? When she ordered the removal of the “infestation” known as Humans? Or perhaps at the beginning of Wrath of the Lich King, when she smiled as two people were literally melted by the Blight?


(Anouk) #62

Well I think this theory is pretty cool and it would also explain Sylvanas’ decisions, since as Yogg she would do stuff just to spread more chaos and confusion.

But I don’t see Blizzard being capable to come up with something of that complexity.


(ßubbletea) #63

I hate Jaina, you hate Sylvanas this is a game not real life , but you can bet im playing as a Sylvanas loyalist when Im logged on


#64

What are you talking about? I just agreed with you that Sylvanas did nothing wrong as she has the decency to offer free will when she commits genocide.


(ßubbletea) #65

Actually thats the biggest form of “wrong” a person can stoop to , but she is paving the way for more Dark Rangers a class/race I would love to play


#66

I really like the thought you’ve put into this. Sadly, as Undead seem to be immune to the corrupting whispers of the Old Gods (it’s why they can have arms, armour and entire buildings made of Saronite with no ill effects) I doubt she has been possessed. HOWEVER! She did witness the afterlife waiting for her when she died. And it was the most terrifying, horrific thing she had EVER seen. The Banshee Queen, former servant of the Scourge, who saw her own people massacred. That brief few minutes in WoW hell was worse than all of it.

Which might explain her sudden shift in personality. She would do anything to avoid that fate - anything to avoid seeing that place again. And that has led to her rather poignant quotes and more savage outlook. And why she views everyone beneath her as tools. As “arrows in her quiver” - to be used to fend death, true death, away.


(Erevien) #67

I still wait for a direct lore proof that undead can’t become old God corrupted. A real confirmation. Also, I am sure sylvanas should be smart enough to realize she got herself a granted death sentence target on the back by starting off this war.


#68

That’s fair enough - but I think there is enough lore to be inferred that they are. For instance, any mortals we see mining Saronite seem to go mad. Evidence of this is found from the Dwarf Prospectors in Howling Fjord and the prisoners in the Ymirheim mine, who even attack you or commit suicide due to the madness from Saronite. Meanwhile, the Scourge are wearing armour and weapons made of Saronite. Icecrown Citadel is entirely forged from Saronite. Their siege weapons are Saronite. And there is a quest where we find undead mining the ore endlessly, as well as one where we find Ghouls that have been embedded with it.

All of these Scourge remained loyal to the Lich King and failed to turn to Yogg-Saron or show any of the symptoms we see in mortals exposed to the Old God’s blood. Now, you could certainly make an argument that Forsaken are not Scourge, and thus perhaps more vulnerable? And if this is the case, well, I look forward to seeing that play out! But given we know the Void seems to fear Sylvanas and desires her death (given the whispers it says to Alleria) I find it dubious she is possessed by Yogg-Saron, a servant of the Void.

I do think exposure to it could have altered her personality in a significant manner though. But I will concede, I don’t think we’ve ever had an ‘official’ comment saying the Undead are totally immune to the Old God’s whispers and corruption.


#69

Why would she? She was not smart enough to realize that trusting a Dreadlord could be dangerous, she was not smart enough to realize that turning her back against a free-willed Gilnean supremacist would not be a smart move.


#70

Interestingly, recent Dev comments have suggested Sylvanas might have actually been aware of Varimathras and Putress’ plan. And that she willingly let it proceed. When you fight Varimathras in Legion, his random dialogue can also suggest that we were (and still are) being duped by Sylvanas.

As for the Gilnean? Yeah, that was a dumb move. But I guess in the moment she was so caught up in her victory she thought herself safe. And she paid the price.


#71

Was it also her plan to summon Sargeras into Azeroth?


#72

I can only assume ‘no’ but you know what they say about best laid plans.

Or perhaps she had a back-up plan should they be unable to retake the Undercity. The ol’ “gas it with Blight” trick, so to speak. That said, this could all be a huge retcon. Back in WotLK she might have had no idea; but current dialogue and noises from the lore team suggest that now she did. I’ve no idea how her letting that massacre happen would be advantageous to her - bar perhaps removing a lot of dissidents who were working against her in a single fell swoop. And, I suppose, it was the work of Putress and his Apothecaries that gave her the Blight. AND she got a free shot in at the Lich King with it, which was the Forsaken’s main goal. The fact it didn’t kill him is unfortunate, but again, that ‘best laid plains’ comment.

So who knows? Not I. Merely passing on info =)


#73

Not just the lore team, but the Chronicles themselves straight up say that many rumor that Sylvanas was behind the Wrathgate.


(Erevien) #74

That interview is already old. Also. In what way would she profit from being overthrown by the rebels and later having Varimathras summon Sargeras to the world. This is full of logic holes if she imfacted intended wrathgate to happen.


#75

I can only repeat what I put in my post, friend.

  • Letting them continue to work gave her the Blight, possibly one of the deadliest weapons on Azeroth. This was developed with her blessing; but she may not have known its creators were planning revolution.

  • She got a free shot at the Lich King with the Blight; the fact it didn’t kill him is unfortunate, but she can’t have known he’d survive when all else died. Her No.1 goal at the time was vengeance - I can see her being willing to let Horde + Alliance die for that. The coup that followed may have been a surprise, though, even if the Wrathgate wasn’t.

  • If she DID know Putress and Co. were gonna betray her, she may have let them do it so that all the traitors would show their hand. And then she could convince the Horde to come in and help kill them all, securing her place as Queen of the Forsaken and eliminating all of her rivals.

Those are the only things that make sense to my mind. But I am not on the lore team, alas, so I can only make suppositions from the little we know. Did she know? Didn’t she know? I suspect we’ll find out in due time. Or maybe not. Maybe they’ll leave that up to the player to decide.


#76

Sylvanas wasnt behind the Wrathgate in the meaning of “she planned the backstab” thats a 100% fact that even is confrimed again in Before the Storm (and also in all the ingame events we had already). When Afrasiabi said she was behind the Wrathgate, he was actually talking about the “blight creation”.
ON TOPIC: Also your Theorie fails since we know Sylvanas her thoughts in different Books like “War Crimes” “Before the Storm” and “A Good War” . Saying it was all the time Yogg would be the weirdest thing and most terrible writing ever. “Yogg kinda pretended in all the novels to be Sylvanas”


(Leíá) #77

It does make you wonder whether the blight was still intended for the living.

I can see why she would have it created in order to stop the Scourge as it did cripple Arthas, but it was a huge risk - a risk that needed to be taken.


#78

Exactly. Sylvanas Character was always “get revenge on Arthas no matter what”. If it would mean to create a weapon like the Blight that kills the scourge and the living, she would do it.


(Leíá) #79

And here is where I think they’ve gone wrong with the character. Her arc was to get revenge on Arthas and once he was dealt with, the character needed a new purpose. Blizzard went with immortality, which is where things have started to go wrong.

Sylvanas used to be really cool, as the Banshee Queen. Now as Warchief, I look at her and she’s nowhere near as cool or as interesting as she used to be, as the Banshee Queen.
What Azshara is now, is what Sylvanas used to be and that’s what I miss.


#80

Oh I totaly disagree with you about Azshara. Azshara is much, much worse written then Sylvanas in BfA. Azshara was once an interesting Character, she was even so portrayed in the Warbringers. But now, after we know about 8.2 her Character is totaly ruined for me. She is nothing then just a stupid puppet of an old God. A character who is evil for the sake of evil. Even the BfA Sylvanas is much, much better portrayed then Azshara is.
Also I dont think Sylvanas her story is less interesting, no its the opposite. Its just disappointing the direction they chose for her Character