The reason i'm ending my Sub

  1. Class Design
    Every class is too pruned
    Every class isn’t as fun as it was 2 expansions ago
    GCD hurts some classes so much you feel like your playing with lag
    Class animations have gotten worse for some specs (rets / locks)

  2. Azerite trait system
    I dislike having to farm levels on the neck piece,
    i dislike that certain traits are required to be viable for some specialization
    They do not do a good job at replacing set bonus’s

  3. PVP scaling
    Don’t like that low levels get scaled up
    Don’t like high item levels get scaled down vs low item level
    Ruins pvp

  4. PVP gearing
    Don’t like there is no vendors
    Don’t like there is no elite set specific to the class

  5. PVE gearing
    Don’t like there no tier sets
    Don’t like there tier set specific to the class

  6. Developers
    I think you are arrogant
    i think you do not understand your player base
    you sacrifice player base to attract new player base which is the reason wow is in it’s current standpoint.

(Stormenson) #2

Bye bye bye have fun


I totally agree. I Will unsub to becouse of these reasons. Waiting for classic:)


Just dog OP.


Classes are pruned but encounters are more difficult. More buttons doesn’t = fun.
You can argue that class mechanics is more important than boss mechanics, but this makes the game less varied and results in significantly more repetitive gameplay. Sure, many classes are less fun than 2 expansions ago, but I don’t think “class pruning” is the reason. I really enjoyed Ahri in League of Legends, she only has 4 buttons. I typically hate 4 button games, and I main healer. Also, more things are coming off the GCD next patch, which means the patch after may have even more things off the GCD. Blizzard are clearly chipping very slowly in the right direction, but they don’t want to over-revert their original change. I think this is reasonable, because I don’t think EVERYTHING needs to be off the GCD like before, but I certainly agree that it is too much currently.

You don’t have to farm levels of your neck piece, I’m not. I have all traits I need and don’t feel behind, maybe I am compared to mythic raiders, but I don’t feel like I’m behind so I can’t do content, suggesting that is ridiculous. Maybe realize you’re not meant to be grind AP like Blizzard have been telling you for over 2 years now, and realize that it is just something you get for playing the game. I do emissaries when I want the reward only, I rarely do them. I’ve done less than 15 Island expeditions over 3 characters. I’ve done less than 30 mythic+ which is significantly less than I did in Legion.

Which traits are required to be viable?

Have you seen the Azerite redesigns for 8.1? Can you be more specific? I agree they’re not quite as fun as set bonuses but I certainly think people are over-reacting about it.

PvP should be about skill, not gear. I disagree with everything you say in point 3, period. They’re not even facts, they’re all opinions. I think warmode is the best new feature of BfA. And yes, I’ve been killed by a lower level than me. I’ve also killed someone higher level than me.

I actually agree with the “no vendors” part. Just starting to level up my honor and fill the bar seems very daunting and time consuming when I run 4 toons in PvE also. I miss when I could just run into Ashran play for a few hours and pick up a new piece for the day. I also liked resilience as a PvP stat, it also allowed Blizzard to put “more stats” on PvP gear without interfering with the gearing process of PvE, and I think removing the vendors like Wrath had was a massive mistake. But do I think it ruins the game? No. But I would be lying if I said there wasn’t reasons why Wrath wasn’t my favorite expansion. And the gearing, such as badges, vendors, no titanforging, no reforging, 1 BiS item from crafting that was difficult to craft and had NO RNG as a result was actually the kind of fun that WoW has lost. But again, I don’t think it ruins the game enough for me to complain about quitting. That’s all a bit knee-jerk for me.

I agree here, partially. I wouldn’t say I “don’t like” it, but rather, I preferred tier sets.

I don’t think they are arrogant
I think part of the reason Blizzard doesn’t understand the player base is the amount of contrasting opinions, 6 groups of people want 6 different versions of WoW.
I certainly don’t think they are sacrificing player bases to attract new players either, I’m pretty sure 99.9% of people who will ever play WoW have already played it now. What they are trying to do is create unique systems that can evolve over time, some bad, some good, some get carried on, some don’t. We hated Legiondaries, this expac has none. We hated titanforging, granted, it still exists, but it was nerfed, and now when I do 370 ilvl content, I can feel accomplished with 370 ilvl instead of setting my target to 380 (because titanforges). This is just inflated content. But of course I’d rather titanforging didn’t exist.

Take Withered training, it became the chromie scenario essentially. Similar systems.

Garrisons (bad) became class halls (fun) which became Embassy and War Campaign (which I actually like for narrative purposes)

Sure they don’t make the best decisions and I’m sure there are changes to make content last longer, but there are also right and wrong ways to do it. I think time gating where time gating makes sense is fine. I didn’t want to grow an entire magical tree that can safe an entire race of people in 3 hours. Doing it over 8 weeks made sense and gave me something to be excited about each week. It’s like an advent calender at Christmas, some people like something to look forwards to, but theres always that impatient kid who eats them all on December 1st.

Quitting is fine, but I think the reasons you are quitting for are pretty washed up. Seems to me like you should have quit long ago if these are the best reasons you can find to quit.

(Hexelyion) #6

I think OP’s reasons are just fine.
The issue lies with us who are making excuses to remain in the game. “Oh I invested so much”, “oh i like my guild” etc


Lol should of quit a long time ago? All the features above where intorduced in BFA so obviously I’m quitting now because of BFA .

Retarded demon Hunter


I already took a break in 8.0 and returned last month to “catch up” on different class for 8.1 core system improvements.

Core system improvements are being pushed back to 22th Jan 2019…
My sub goes to suspension till patch notes are available and I scout the “improvements” actually fix the issues. 5 Days remaining.

As an angry ex-shaman main - the upcoming changes does not seem to be sufficient to renew the sub. So much for “we didn’t had time to finish all the classes for the BfA release, so we’ll rework the remaining - namely shamans - in 8.1”…

Go home Blizzard you’re drunk.

(Hexelyion) #9

They said the same about spell animations for remaining classes. I don’t know what Activision is thinking pushing out unfinished products.
Greedy actually means loss of money on the long term.


Nothing you mentioned really breaks the game. Half your excuses like “pruned abilities” still leave the game with significantly more buttons than League of Legends, StarCraft, GW2, Swtor, and most other games on the market. So yes, they’re pretty much dead excuses. Because you can apply it to any game on the market. So if something that applies to any game on the market is a reason that you’re quitting WoW, then yes, I would say you probably should have just quit a long time ago. You’re already brainwashed and deluded to think more buttons = more skill to the point that balancing the game automatically damages your view of the game. That’s why chess is obviously so complicated, owh wait, it’s not, because chess is actually very simple at it’s core.

The phenomenon you’re going through is called “wanting to hate the game”.

You know why Azerite system can’t ruin the game for me? Cause while Tier sets were MORE FUN. They were NEVER the reason I logged in. You know what made me log in? New raids & new dungeons. Something that is still of the same great consistent quality since Wrath of the Lich King.

They could prune this game down to 4 abilities per class and it would still be more tempting for me than League of Toxicity or Fortcrap.

Also you wrote “Don’t like” “Don’t like” “I think”…if you’re not smart enough to figure out these are opinions to the point that you’re arguing with my response, then I’m afraid you’re beyond help to fix your kneejerk-ism and yes, you should have quit as soon as you saw the BfA beta. Because nothing in the game is a surprise right now, and if you’re surprised it’s your fault for not paying attention. It was communicated. You know how I know that? Because I haven’t been surprised ONCE yet this expac outside of a cutscene and knew EXACTLY what to expect 4+ months ahead of time.

So you can call me a retard, or you can stop embarrassing yourself by calling people retarded who are less surprised than you at how the game is right now. For me it’s expected, but you’re in a rage, who is really the retard here?


Breaks the game? I didn’t suggest anything that breaks the game, which further empowers my last comment.

the changes to the game style has led me and by the looks of it, a fair few people to leave, which is not because the game play is broken, but because it’s not rewarding.

pvp shouldn’t be about gear, but when a level 110 with azerite trait stacking start shooting 60k frost bolts at you, then you know scaling is broken.

when you get the elite set and you look exactly like a warrior / death knight as a paladin then you are no longer unique. i mean at least pvp gear has faction version, poor PVE go to mythic and all look the same.

Going into PVP and having the same item dropped over and over again without being able to choose is wrong. you say pvp shouldn’t be about gear, but when you remove the ability to choose what gear you have, and then implement scaling, its so messy. why not remove scaling and leaving the choice of gear? or how about… re-introducing templates but only for rated pvp. then it’s not about gear.

nobody wants to level the dam neck piece, and if you only play casually, you’re forced to do the bang for your buck azerite trait generation which could be for a lot of people including me terribly unfun. logging on to play battlegrounds for me and getting 50 azerite power is great.

Class Design DOES AND IS CAUSING A SERIOUS CHANGE IN THE GAME. you say mechanics got better? that might be so for Mythic plus and Raids, but what about pvp? what about solo play? How much fun would it be if they improved the PVE mechanics and IMPROVED THE CLASS DESIGN AS WELL.

you Demon Hunter, are, and will always be. the biggest problem because they apparently cater to you. which nobody likes.

my post has 25 likes.

yours has 2

25 / 2 ratio.

by math ratio.

If 10,000 players like the way the game was designed like yourself, 120,000 players would not.


I didn’t say class design wasn’t causing a change, I acknowledged and explained all the changes, I didn’t deny anything. I even said I agree with many of your points. You need to take off the hate goggles.
Also, you keep calling me “demon hunter” but I main most healers. All the likes prove is that more people want to hate the patch than people who want to like it. And I don’t believe for a single moment that Diablo mobile and kneejerking isn’t at least slightly responsible. I also imagine many people are voting for you over me because I have 2.5k achievement points and not 12.2k which implies you know more, even though this is a character I made in BfA it will lead people to think I have no clue what I’m talking about.

Also, 90% of people can hate the game for “design” reasons but most are just copying what other people said, you think the whole community understands game design? Or you think they just copy what they hear? You say scaling is broken when a 110 can beat a 120, but I’m pretty sure that is the point of scaling and implies it is working. If you think a 110 hitting a 120 hard is “not working” then I think you missed the point of what war mode scaling was meant to achieve.

Even the stuff with EA and Bethesda is going to make gamers angrier. Also, your sample size is so small to figure out that ratio. Most players don’t come to the forums, and I know 10 people who will remain subbed for every 2 who complain, but it means nothing, cause the people I know, just like the people who read this thread, are both a small sample size. You see, I’m being more reasonable than you give me credit for, but you’re as angry as I’m suggesting.

Again, at no point did I say “the game isn’t changing” you’re just making things up so you can be angry at the points I made without actually discussing them. It doesn’t matter how many people agree with you either, even if 100% agree with you including me, it doesn’t change the fact that many games exist with 2-4 abilities that are more fun than WoW is now, so clearly a lack of buttons to press isn’t the issue, but rather what those buttons do and how they work together.

There is nothing wrong with change, WoW never has been perfect and without change it won’t get better, it will just get stale. When you knee jerk rage every two seconds, you basically act as negative reinforcement for Blizzard to try anything new. Garrisons was a disaster, but class halls wasn’t, even though everyone raged about them, I actually think class halls was more fun than what we have now, but I do think the reduction in followers is a good thing. Just because a system is bad, doesn’t mean you have to be angry at every little thing about it.

What you’re basically doing is blaming symptoms of problems, instead of problems themselves. Abilities was pruned, your fun went down. Less abilities = less fun is your logic. Makes sense at first, until you realize WoW is one of the only popular online games that actually have more than 5 different buttons to press. League, Fortnite, PubG, DotA, Warcraft, StarCraft, Hearthstone. You’re trying to argue that more buttons = more fun but that isn’t true and just misdirects from the real problem, which is that many abilities simply feel bad to use, slapping more buttons into the class won’t stop those abilities feeling bad.

Also, just for the record, many many people read the OP but not further down.

(Joeblob) #13

“Developers are arrogant. I think you do not understand your player base”

I 100% agree,

  • some class need a complete talent rebuild (mage, shaman, warrior etc.)
  • reward system is missing logic. Every new patch kills previous content.
  • class balance is pure joke in pve also in pvp

I think many people expected changes in 8.1 but developers fail again.


Love the old pvp that was more basted on paper-sciccors-rocks.

Said it before, when blizzard started to try balancing classed around arena it all went to hell from there.


Joeblob (how the hell do I quote on new forums?)

“reward system is missing logic. Every new patch kills previous content.”

This is my biggest beef with a game.
The patches instead of expanding the experience are replacing it.


Mate, are you seriously comparing the buttons of WoW to games such as LoL?! It’s way too obvious that the philosophies of those games are completely different! You seem like a reasonable guy, but I just can’t fathom how you can spew such bull****!

As for SC - it’s BY FAR more complicated and actually the keybindings there exceed current WoW’s, but they are not even what make it fun. They are just needed!

GW2 - have you considered why WoW had (in its glory days) much more subscribers than any other MMORPG? For me personally, when I open a youtube video, I see a awful artstyle and no more than 10 buttons. That’s my first impression of it!

Anyway, the class design is what is ruining it for me. Everything is so pruned and lacks any kind of depth, be it in core rotation or utility, I just can’t enjoy it…
I have way too many thoughts about it that I actually can’t remember them and cba writing a constructive argument, because nobody at Blizzard reads those threads, even if people give some good ideas. I could give a **** about pretty much any other system (except azerite), as long as class design is good. Hell, I live in Eastern Europe and I’d pay triple the fee for MoP class design!



I don’t see the classes as to pruned, they streamlined specs, but I don’t think they should have done it, because the class identity was shifted to spec identity which in return made balancing difficult and classes…well…losing their original feel.
Pre-WoD, a lot of classes suffered from too many spells with extremely low usage, which used the action bars, just because that…now I can use some of the action bars for utility items because I am not stressed by that ability which I might have used once per month.
Also, I haven’t played a single spec which didn’t had at least 2 full action bars with abilities. Played shaman, warlock and tried a bit monk and DH so far. They have the ability to have easier or more complex builds, opposed to pre-WoD.
Saying that, I really feel the need to point out that a lot of people enjoyed Legion design where you could macro lots of cooldowns into 1 button, then smash 1 - 2 buttons and now in BfA when you cannot do that anymore classes are suddenly pruned again.

(Hexelyion) #18

IMO pruning is the dev’s lack of ability to properly balance spells and classes.
So they just cut down on them so it’s easier. And then they sell the “spec fantasy” bullc**p that people apparently buy.


The GCD was coming ever since ppl started using 1 button macro’s.
And it’s fine in design, the problem is lenght of GCD. It is way too long between abilities, while it is needed to disable 1button macro’s it is just making a fight system boring where I am just standing doing nothing waiting for my abilities to be used again.


PvP is less about skill than it ever was. With so few buttons to press there is very little outplay potential so what class/comp you play matters much more than how skilled you are.

As for templates and pvp scaling it’s just band-aid fix for horrible gearing system with titanforging. Before legion that was never needed because everyone had same gear eventually that you bought from vendor with no rng and then it was really about skill. Now no1 is equal because of rng gearing and infinite ap farm.