The ret changes are great

I’ve been a ret main since practically forever. Even in Classic I main it. This is by far my favourite itteration of the spec.

Early Dragonflight as ret was so much hell I practically quit doing content a few months in, my sub was due to run out the day 10.0.7 dropped and the ret changes basically saved the game for me. I felt viable in PvP for once, if a bit overtuned. My rotation was fun. The 1m CD on Avenging Wrath is raw perfection for Mythic+. Usually I only really do content on the last patch of an expansion but I wound up getting both my elite set and 2k M+ rating outside of a final season for the first time.

I’m having so much fun, I hope the only adjustments we get are damage tuning and no hits to our utility or CDs. The 1m CD loop is genuinely so much fun to play with compared to in the past and I enjoy my spec in both PvP and PvE. And I can’t make this post without a shoutout to Divine Protection. An actual defensive cooldown? One that isn’t hard countered by Warrior’s and Priests? I LOVE THIS BUTTON. Divine Steed off the GCD? It no longer feels like a clunky mess to use! 4 Holy Power spenders? Sounds terrible, plays great with our increased HP generation.

For me this is peak ret. The class has never been more fun to play and Dragonflight is quickly earning it’s way towards being my favourite expansion, despite it being early days.

I’m not playing the game for FOMO. I stopped collecting stuff during Shadowlands. I’m playing because I genuinely enjoy both it and my class.

Keep up the great work, genuinely, you guys did great. Thank you.


Overtuned and you say that is great ? Right then.

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I didn’t say that. I mean it is great for me as someone who loves power fantasy. But not for the game. My main point is I enjoy how ret feels to play now, regardless of tuning.

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Ok fair enough each to their own. But what has annoyed me is how they have taken away playstyles to add others when they say they want people to play the class how they want to play it.

Concencration spell gone?

You can turn it into a passive or a bunch of hammers that follow you around, plus all the talents interacting with it are gone for the most part so yeah, great improvement.

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It’s not overtuned, but the rework is not as good as i hoped to be honest.

In fact id say i enjoy ret just about as much as i did before.

Sure they added a few cool things, they also removed a lot of cool stuff.

Overall, the spec is not even significantly more fun to play.

No wake of ashes reset, no seraphim which would have been fine if it was off gcd and didn’t cost holy power, or at least didn’t cost holy power, no mad paragon.

Like, they only really needed to add some defensive utility and mobility, and remove some of the bloat talents with more fun stuff, and they kinda blew it.

Overall id give the rework a 5/10 in terms of actual gameplay. It’s very meh.

And i’m actually starting to worry about shadow priest quite a bit, because it’s looking significantly worse.


Hit the nail on the head there totally agree. It seems tuned for brain dead damage tunneling now and i just dont think ret is that kind of class sure building up 3 holy power to use seraphim can be awkward when first using the talent but when you get used to it the buffs are worth it. Ret is a tanky burst specc and should not be playing like a demon hunter that is for sure.

The point is more that they had the chance to actually improve the gameplay, and they didn’t.

Because they removed too many good things while also adding a few cool talents. Overall it’s just not very fun. They had something going with the crusader strikes auto attack, but then they nerfed it into oblivion, and removing woa reset was just a bad idea, just like how it was a bad idea to remove seraphim, when the solution was obvious.

And it’s not like all the talents they added are actually fun either.

I mean, if you are gonna invest so much time into improving something, and it’s not even significantly more fun, i think you failed at the task.

Most people are probably fine with the fact that ret is doing better damage, looking at the discord or forums, but i’m not, my standards are a little higher than that.

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I’ll never understand people who like Seraphim. It was raw bloat.


I had many hopes for the rework but it let me down.
I did enjoy having a lot of buttons to press like seraphim and crusader strike on my rotation (i only do pvp btw) but now since the only way to go is with crusading strikes it feels like i play a DH where i have a 3 button rotation and 2 more for burst. I has been oversimplified and doesn’t suit my type of gameplay.
Don’t get me wrong , things needed to change but of the 3 major things that i had hope to change (mobility, sustain damage and sef heal) they kinda fixed the sustain damage by lowering the burst to less damaging but higher frequency.
Healing hands was a nice upgrade and most of the self heals were cool but nerfed to the ground and practically useless in arenas with dampening.

How is a huge damage buff bloat? Ret is a burst specc is it that hard to hit a crusader and blade of justice before popping wings? or in an emergency wake and seraphim with wings? dont think it is to be honest.

/use Avenging wrath
/use seraphim is it really that hard?

Performance is not necessarily the same as play-feel.

Specs can feel great to play and be underperforming and vice-versa.

I agree that Ret playstyle feels a lot better after the rework.


I mean, considering that Seraphim doesn’t exist anymore, I would argue it’s pretty hard

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And back when it did exist, it felt clunky to incorporate into rotation with the 3 HP cost

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Nothing clunky about it building up 3 holy power before you burst ? right learn to press some keys.

Blizzard clearly disagreed. It also added to the consistent issue of Ret’s Multiplier burst.

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Blizzard clearly have no clue because get me one highly skilled paladin on this forum to say they hated seraphim and i will listen to you then thanks.

I’m not trying to convince you of anything, you are entitled to whatever opinion you want. I am stating my opinion of Seraphim and the fact that everyone had issues with stacking multiplier burst.

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